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Rob FLory
ParticipantComes in handy when pulling hay up into the mow and cultivating single.
Rob
ParticipantHi All and a shoutout to “My Favorite Misanthrope”,
A couple of updates on Chris and Jake. We weighed them last weekend and Chris was 2500lb and Jake was holding firm at a very lean 2100. I noticed recently that despite extra boards between them and a shorter chain on Chris, he has developed a trick of snagging Jake’s hay with his horn and dragging it back to where he can kick it into his manger. No wonder his “program” has failed to take any weight off of him.
Jake lost his position as dominant ox, but is a much harder worker even at age 14 than Chris at 10. Jake has worn down or lost about half of his front teeth so it takes him a while to eat his hay, I’m assuming because it is harder to tear it apart into bites. I got a handle installed on an old forage chopper to give that a try, although once we get some loose hay back into the barn in June, that will help, too.
After several years of being pushed around by Jake, Chris is beginning to respond pretty well when I need him to put in/put out and they did a great job of backing the manure spreader into a tight spot yesterday.
Chris still holds his head down no matter what I do with his bows so I am calling that his own personal problem. Tim Huppe said that sometimes a twisted yoke will help an ox who just likes to keep his head down pull better. I have a twisted yoke but it is the wrong size so I took it off the “sell” pile and put it back in the barn, but Chris is just going to have to deal with the yoke I’ve got in this economy.
Life is Good
Rob
ParticipantI taught an 8-year old team to put in/put out years ago after I saw the utility of those commands. I found a good opportunity to be when they were tied in their stall for eating. I just did one repetition or 2 every meal with each ox and in about 2 weeks they were doing it pretty well. A thumb applied to the tail head helps move them, but I also made an 8-inch long piece of wood with 4 points on it(like the butt of a Ray Ludwig-style whip) that helped them decide to step away when it was twisted on the side of their butt. Cut a V notch each direction on the end of a piece of wood.
When it is time to practice “out in the world”, something with a tongue is best so they can’t step over it. Using a fence in front of them is handy. The 4-H kids often put one wheel of their cart in a tire to practice.
Chris, who joined my “widower” ox Jake 2 years ago gave me quite a challenge on this issue as he would not respond the way I wanted to physical pressure. He would lean into pressure rather than move away from it, but not reliably enough to use “reverse pressure”. After 2 years of getting pushed around by Jake and learning my body language, he is getting it and yesterday they did the most beautiful backing job of their career with the manure spreader.
Have Fun
Rob
ParticipantThere is a team of water buffalo working at a living history site in South Carolina. I can’t recall the name but you can probably google your way to it.
Rob Flory
ParticipantHi Ed,
A sled with a tongue is nice because the animals can’t turn around and defeat you by jumping over the chain. They also learn to sidestep away from the tongue while turning.Good luck,
Rob
ParticipantSo many around there you can just pop ’em from the road with a handgun. Only thing allowed to hunt them on the side of the road is the mountain lions, though.
Rob
ParticipantBut is the neck of the ox flat?
Rob
ParticipantI have found that in the stall after they are done eating is a nice opportunity to practice this. The opportunity comes twice a day, every day, whether yoking them or not.
Rob
ParticipantHorse bit again, out of the stall, while being unhitched from a manure spreader.
Sold him. He had some other issues like jumping out of pastures that made him a challenge.
Carrying on with my oxen for the hard work and the old horse that the biting horse was to replace for the precise work.
Rob
PS, after all, it is the year of the ox.ParticipantHi,
I’ve taught driving oxen to over a hundred people and driving horses to a handful. There are some who get it(driving oxen or horses) very easily, and others that seem like they may never. In between, I am sure, are a whole bunch of folks who will get it, but have to work harder at it. I think I was one of those.Rob
ParticipantRoger, it’s on.
Outside the barn, I say, “foot”, touch it, and he picks it up, and I can hold it and clean, trim etc. for a minute at a time, no problem.
In the stall, give the command, reach for the foot, and he freaks out. Other than biting, he has also tried to turn and cow kick, but he doesn’t have room.
Donn and Jenn, We are all striving for a relationship with our horses in which they work with minimal pressure. But what do we do when that is not enough? It is not really a “suggestion” when there is a correct response, is it?. A suggestion implies that compliance is optional.
Rob
ParticipantWe plan on it.
I would like to be able to pick out his feet in the stall, though.
Rob
ParticipantI have been clicking the horse while the foot is up, and holding it some more, so that the horse does not learn that the click is the release command. I may be wrong, but that is the thinking. In any case, I’ve got the horse lifting his feet on command.
Yes, the horse needs to be shod. At least he does in winter when we are working on ice. We’ll be shoeing the fronts only for the growing season.
When the horse bit, I could have struck him, but that would not have improved his attitude about working with his feet in the stall. I did not retreat and show him that I was afraid of him.
Round pen training is great, but I’m not convinced that a dominance-based method is the best way to deal with fear. There is a lot of variation of psychology in horses. I think there is room for many tools in the training box.
Dominance is very important, but I think what we are dealing with is a horse who is afraid because dominance was applied unwisely.
I’ll report further as it goes.
Rob
ParticipantHi,
Thanks for the interesting stories, Lady in VA et al.
I am going to post a followup on what I am doing under a new thread with the title, “Fear Memories in Horses”.
RobParticipantHi Bivol,
A linguistic note: When we say pulling over here, it refers to weight pulling competitions. Your inquiry may get more attention if you ask about training horses for work or training horses for plowing.
Enjoy your quest.Rob
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