[Robert MoonShadow]

Um, Geoff… next time try riding up front & leave the riding in the trailer to the animals… maybe then your butt won’t be so tired. 😉

[Robert MoonShadow]

Carl, Jason ~ Thank you for your thoughts. A couple of points; out West here, the wood is primarily ‘soft’ woods >>> firs, pines, etc. No one burns much of the little bit of hardwood that’s around. There’s entire forests dead or dying from beetle-infestation, and after the devastating ‘let it burn’ policies of recent years, the national & state forests, as well as some of the bigger timber companies, are starting to push firewood harvesting as a way around the ‘logging ban lawsuits’. There’s a caveat, however; no logging-type set up {as in skidders, etc}, and low-impact is demanded (rightly so) by the timber companies. I harvest a lot of firewood… often getting several cords from what the ‘wood-hackers’ leave behind: they come in, drop only the big standing dead, cut out the ‘bellies’ & go >>> leaving 1/2 to a full cord in the bottom swell & top. It’s (as Carl called it) the methodology of taking that, as well as some pretty good sized stuff that’s too far off the road to interest the hackers, using draft animals that would open up an entire range of possibilities. Because, although the Nat’l Forests are open to anyone w/ a chainsaw & firewood permit, the timber companies {that own tracts larger than some Eastern states} have shown some willingness to give exclusive permission to those that can show that they can do it without damaging the valuable timber –> the typical 2-ton truck w/ winch, 4-wheeler ‘chain her up & hit the gas’, ‘grab the gravy – leave the rest’ techniques used by what is known hereabouts as ‘wood-hackers’ won’t cut it. The state lands have shown similar interests. Firewood takes up 1/4 of my time & brings in about 1/2 my money… more so, if I can grasp the ideas & methods of utilizing the donkeys – as Carl indicated, labor is a major cost – but so is fuel – and draft power seems to me to be able to address both issues. I’m wondering if it would help loggers back East that are dealing w/ low prices, as well? It seems to me that instead of a sideline, it can become a major focus: sustainable firewood harvesting. Because from what I’ve seen out here, all the regulations & common sense in place for the logging operations go out the window when it comes to fiirewood. But I realize that there’s a big difference between a donkey snigging an occasional firelog & full-blown production. I just mentioned donkeys, because I use them, and because it’s easier to translate up than down… for instance, I think a logging arch for donkeys would have to be scaled way down? Perhaps some sort of long, narrow cart or wagon for stove-lengths or 4-footers? Maybe I’m wasting time on this idea?

[Robert MoonShadow]

The sounds of 44 little hooves taptaptaptaptaptap dancing on the piece of plywood screwed to the side of the stanchion to make a ramp, as little 2-week old goats learn balancing skills and games. The soft little ‘nicker-baas’ that mother puts out that babies can hear clean across the pasture that says ‘feeding time’. A forgotten bed of crocuses hidden in the trees bordering the road, silently demanding notice of their bravery against the snow. A slight tint to the air, that you realize is the very first hints of leafbuds opening on the trees. The sounds of the neighbors from back in the higher elevations slowing down to view the baby goats… and realizing you don’t hear the sound of studded snow tires.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Wait a minute, wait a minute wait just one damn minute!! Erika… you’ve got an ice cream parlor that CLOSES?!?! What the &*^% for?? That’s GOT to be illegal! In fact, it’s against the very laws of nature!!

Sure sign of approaching Spring around here: certain spoiled-rotton recent mothers start rubbing up against me, antiscipating my breaking out the rubber currybrush to help them shed their winter fur.
{Um, I’m talking goats here; but I’ve known a few women who… never mind}.

Spring: the time to change over from making naked snow angels to making naked mud angels!
{Try and get THAT mental image out of your mind anytime soon! :p }

[Robert MoonShadow]

Don’t believe Erika… she’s quite informative with her emails, and surprisingly for a woman, she doesn’t rattle on… :p {Actually she’s really cool!}
Welcome to Springtime at DAP, Michel!!

[Robert MoonShadow]

I wish to apologize if I offended anyone in my posting here to Brett… I have, and want, no authority here to call him to task; however, I did want to point out to him that others besides his ‘target of the hour’ found his wording to be offensive. I do agree with many of the things he had to say; I don’t think we neccesarily need more regulations, but enforcement & perhaps to review/adjust the ones we have. I had hoped to bring his attention back to the subject & not to ‘being right’. Again, if I overstepped or offended anyone, I apologize. I hope this general topic can & will continue?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Jason ~ Your words were very well spoken; you obviously spent time & effort to restrain some of your feelings, yet were concise & forceful… while still being polite & dignified. I just want to say that I think you are a prime example of how to communicate – and disagree – in good form.
Brett, however… you are not. You make overwhelmingly broad statements & put words in other people’s mouths, by saying such things as “You and I both know that the rain forest isn’t disappearing” –> really? Does Jason “know” that? Two things wrong with that statement: 1) Unless you’ve taken the time to talk with {and not at}, Jason on this subject, you can’t possibly know what he does and doesn’t know… 2) Do you really know this? Have you been to the rain forests? Even one, much less enough to know whether they are or aren’t disappearing? I’ve been to Costa Rica, Panama, and 2 countries in Africa (no longer known by the same names anymore). Twice to most, 4 times to Costa Rica. I know if it’s disappearing – not based on whatever “source” I choose to go to for ‘information’. I’m not going to do as you expect & contradict you… it’s pointless, and irrelevant. You want to know, go. It’s irrelevant here & now, because my point isn’t about the state of the “jungle”, but in you not only making that blanket statement, but then assuming that Jason knows & agrees with your suppostition… that’s not nice, man. I think you were very rude to him, also –> ‘has he ever dealt with OSHA’?? He runs a program that deals with teaching one of the most physically hazardous jobs in this country! You couldn’t think of perhaps a better way to phrase your sarcasm? I agree with some things you speak of in various threads, but man, you make it hard to even agree with you. Lighten up, will you please? I’m not trying to rag at you; I actually enjoy the different viewpoints you & Jason bring to a discussion; but the words & attitude… Jason, Carl, and several others can, and do, disagree with people but they manage to do so with dignity – for both themselves and their opposite in the discussion. I’m not that good at it. But I see the way they do it, and it motivates me to try. It’s not your stance, it’s your way of putting it forth, that’s abrasive. Maybe you didn’t realize that? But now you do. That’s why I spoke here… I’m not involved in this discussion, so perhaps you’ll see that I’m not invested in ‘winning’ the debate. Of course, this all is just my opinion… take it & quarter & you can get a cup of coffee at Sheryl’s cafe in white Bird = both are worth what you pay for it.

[Robert MoonShadow]

When I got my pack donkeys years ago, my neighbor tried to round-pen them for me (I had to be right on them to control them), but he ran across what I later found to be a common occurrence w/ donks… they get bored really easy & once they “get it”, you need to move on quickly. So, roundpens work – as Rod indicated – but too much will cause problems, too. My problem was solved by the simple expedient of just getting to know each other & building trust. I’d suggest having your neighbor contact American Donkey & Mule Society at http://www.lovelongears.com –> they have videos, books, and their magazine “The Breyer” = all focusing on long-ears.

[Robert MoonShadow]

I’d try him at info@ruralheritage.com

[Robert MoonShadow]

Erika ~ Share my responsibilities?!? Um… no way! {You thought I’d say okay, especially the manure part, didn’t ya?}… I’m loving almost every minute of my life!! I got to meet Geoff today – really cool guy, lots of good talk – and laughed so hard at the neighbor… she asked me what I’d named my eleveny baby goats = “Name them, hell lady, I can’t even get them to hold still long enough to count them!!” –> and she tried & laughed so hard she had tears in her eyes. Now I’m going to have to PM you; I’m wanting to talk poultry & you opened up & let me know you’ve got expertise… By the way; the salmonella, etc. in the salad greens is most often introduced through the water they irrigate and/or wash it with… and a good healthy compost has been shown to contain organisms that feed on those pathogens…
…and who are you calling “sane” on here, anyways? Better not be me! :p

[Robert MoonShadow]

Erika ~ I agree 100% with you; we can’t just ignore the problems. However, I also don’t think that I’m going to spend a whole lot of time out of my day worrying about it – I’ve got to much to do with 22 goats, 15 rabbits, a donkey, an acre to plant in produce, 37 miles of wilderness trail scheduled o be built this year (so far)… well, you get the idea. I’m going to do what I need to, regardless. For instance: I just talked to the water resource people here about water rights on a piece of property I’m looking at that borders on a creek. No one else lives on it (the creek). According to this guy, he told me that the law says that during the 6-month permit process (the license takes anothe 4-5 years), I’m “not allowed” to use that water. I asked him “What about watering my animals & produce, then?” He said “We notify a minimum 3 days ahead of time before coming on your property to measure water flow in the streambed… figure it out.” In other words, I’m willing to notify my congressman, etc. about my views on NAIS, etc., but if “they” pass it anyways, I don’t expect I’ll change the way I do things, regardless. I feel no compunction to obey an unjust law, nor one that’s made solely for the benefit of a select/elite few. But then, I do so knowing the possible consequences & don’t reccomend anyone else to do the same.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Geoff ~ About bumper-pulls tracking: we use a standard stock trailer that’s a bumper-pull… 2 mules in a 16′ or 18′ (never measured it), and we take it literally ‘until the road runs out’ = pulls & tracks just fine. My boss told me when I first went to work for him that you can save major $$ if it’s called a ‘stock’ and not a ‘horse’ trailer… and the horses/mules don’t seem to know the difference. Ellie’s a 16.5 hh Belgian mule & she’s got head clearance in it. (They get pretty picky about their ears rubbing the ceiling).

[Robert MoonShadow]

FYI: We work in the wildernesses alot building trails, so from our experience; equipment is allowed, but no types of machnes are. No wheels or gears… technically, a come-along is a machine. However, it’s up to the intrepretation of the local CO (Contracting Officer) & their representatives. No way can you use chainsaws. {We once got in trouble for using a cordless grinder to sharpen our pick-mattocks = it “ruined our wilderness experience” – they’re now called “Dewalt Warblers” :rolleyes:}. Trail Aces are useful for “plowing” up a strip, can loosen up the topsoil and expose the rocks. Go to http://www.trailbuilders.org for contacts that might be able to help with logistics & details on what to expect… but be aware, they’re a hungry bunch. My boss will be back up from arizona in April some time, and I can put you in contact with him for more advice, if wanted… he’s been in this wilderness game w/ mules since ’94. Oh, and during high fire danger season, expect to have to use a campstove – no fires.
BTW, if contracting with the gov’t., it’s usually ‘prevailing wage’ = us general laborers get $28.50-35.00/hr. This is all based on my/our experience and I hope this info helps someone here to land this job, without any bad surprises.

[Robert MoonShadow]

I agree with the idea that “give them an inch…”
But I also very much agree with Carl; as I mentioned to my boss about NAIS & the effect it would have on moving his mules around from wilderness jobs all over the West, his reply was: “Not really… unless I choose to let it.” I read somewhere on this site about some farmer standing up & saying he wasn’t going to follow the mandatory NAIS law in his state, and was arrested for it… should’ve kept his mouth shut & just gone about his business… who’d have known? We shouldn’t allow ourselves to be put in the position of defending our rights… they should be in the position of defending their attempts to take them away.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Bret ~ Thank you for your words. I now think we agree on some very basic issues – I didn’t before, based on your previous words here & in other postings. Nothing wrong with having strong beliefs (whether or not they’re the same as mine is really irrelevant), but extremism seems to lead to narrow-mindedness. Humble1 seemed of that nature… I truly hope I never allow myself to become so calloused as to become that disrespectful & disregardful of others’ opinions. It’s why I made a point of emphasizing that I was responding to your posting, based on what I understood your point to be – and I was trying to get you to clarify. Again, thank you for doing so.

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