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simon lenihan
ParticipantIT is true that from time to time that a large ardenner would be rejistered in the brabant stud book and visa versa. It is wrong to say that the ardenner originated from the brabant it is the other way around, the original ardennes was more like a heavy draft pony, julius cesar wrote about the ardennes in which he said they posessed great stamina and were very couragous, napolean used them as his artillery horses and they gained alot of respect in that they were the only breed that made it back from his ill faithed siege on moscow. It was only when the ardenners were moved to the more fertile lowlands of belgium and holland that we see the start of the larger more cumbersome brabant/ flemish, these horses were used by the knights at the time as they were able to carry all that heavy armour. It was during the middle to late 1800 that we see the various stud books being set up, the ardennenes region is a very hilly rugged region that seperates belgium and france and the farms here at that time would have been worked with ardenner horses as firstly, the brabant would be too big and cumbersome for such steep gradients and secondly the farmers of the time would not have been able to feed such a large horse as times were tough and the horses that they kept had to be economical to keep [ the ardennes to this day are easy keepers ]. History tells us that what made the ardennes horse even better was the infusion of arabian blood during the early part of the 1800s this gave the horse more stamina, this is something that is still been practiced today. In 1870 ardenner stallions were imported to sweden by the government of the time to cross with the local north swedish horse the resulting offspring were said to be remarkable little horses of great power and endurance, however approx 15 years later brabants were imported as they required a heavier horse to pull the now heavier farm machinery and thus alot of the original blood lines were lost. Today we have the belgium ardenner the french ardenner and the swedish ardenner all originated from the smaller horse i described but as we know there was crossing with the brabant / flemish in all three depending on what was required at the time. We keep what can be described as the old original type, my horses range from 14.2 to 15.1 hh but there will be brabant blood in there somewhere, we are always on the look out for the old fashioned type to cross to our own to try and get back to what alot of writers claim was one of the best horses in the world.
simon lenihanParticipantpound for pound the shetland is the strongest equine in the world and will do an honest days work in the right enviroment, the right enviroment being small conifer thinnings, steep bankings and other work related to their size. Its hard to say without knowing what schooling the 10 year old has had, but it should be no different to training a youngster.
simon lenihanParticipantmy horses are out all year round and while we do not get as severe a frost as you do we will still get 10 below at times with no effect on the horses.
simon lenihanParticipantwhippets, bull terriers, lurchers all used for hunting, however hunting with dogs is now banned in the uk, what a shower of a– h—- we have running this country.
simon lenihanParticipantI would like to think that the state forester in question is looking for someone to log this wood with animal power for the right reasons. The state forestry over here are not really interested in giving work to horse logging operations, we have only got 6 weeks work in the past 8 years and this is similar for the few remaining horseloggers over here. If a wood is to be harvested and there is no interest from machines one might get a call but be assured that it is either crap timber, or on a very steep slope and not worth doing anyway.
simon lenihan
–ParticipantA horse drawn tram is a great idea and i think it could be a viable business in the future, my sons and i visited a little coastal fishing village in cornwall recently, there was no access into the village for anyone other than the residents, we had to park in a car park at the very top of the village but we need not have worried as there was our taxi waiting, horse drawn tram, it would take approx 10 adults, the guy that operated it told me he charged £3 to take passengers to the village end, on our way into the village we met his wife coming the other way with another horse drawn tram. I got the opportunity to have a chat with them when they were packing up for the evening and stabling the horses, they claimed business was down this year due to fact that we have had one of the wettest summers since records began but they were still managing to make a living. In the town of killarney in the south west of ireland there is up to 20 jaunting cars [ small horse drawn tram ] operating trips from the town out to mucross house and along by the killarney lakes, they have been in operation for years and always seem to be doing a triving business. In blackpool in the north of england there are about a dozen horse drawn trams in operation taking visitors along the promenade, it was great to see that most of these trams were operated by women, it was while talking to one of these women that the conversation turned to insurance [public liability ] i was amased that she only had to have cover for 1 millon considering the thousands of people that visit every year, my public liability has to be 5 millon minimum and we have only seen a handfull of folk in the past 3 months
simon lenihanParticipantwhat system do you use when you work on steep ground, or in a tight conifer stand with very little room, in wet boggy ground and areas where you have alot of obstructions like boulders, root plates from blown trees, etc. what i have just described is the type of terrain in which the majority of horseloggers this side of the pond work in. The logging arch has advantages but you need room to be able to manouvre it, i can not think of one wood in the past few years in which i could have used an arch. All loging work is dangerous but with ground skidding it can be minimised by working your horses loose and where you cant by working on a choke rein [ single rein ]. Is it possible to overturn an arch or be trown from it on rough ground, i would also imagine that you can skin a tree with one working in tight situations. Every wood is different and you have to adopt your methods to suit, work it the best and safest way you can and be proud of what you do, which ever method you use.
From the primitive old fashioned hillbilly, simon lenihan, [ good to be back ]ParticipantThe dvd chronicles of a biological woodsmen is a top class dvd and a must see for anyone interested in animal power logging.
simon lenihanParticipantI know what jason is saying in regards to horseloggers diversifying, portable sawmills, training courses, wagon rides what ever makes a buck. I have seen it all before a logger would be struggling making ends meat in the wood and would end up investing in a portable sawmill. A sawmill could set the logger back several thousand all this without the security of long term orders. We work commercially usually 6 days a week, week in week out and alot of folk will say we are blinkered in our approach. we stick with it because we love it like all the good folk on this forum and we are always hoping that things will changefor the better. The only way it is going to change is if the people in power like the green party and other government organizations see the benifits of animal power, and then subsidize those commited to making this a better place to work and live.
simonParticipantlooked at a job this morning, 16 acres of sitka spruce, 45 years old and untouched, owner wanted a 25% thin with all the poor quality trees removed. Told owner that even though the wood was marked correctly and that his approach to worst first removal was spot on, we told him that we could not make it pay, even the machine guys would not look at this as all timber coming out would be chipwood [ £8 a tonne at the landing. This is going against the grain for us but we have to make a living. At present we are no better than the loggers that high grade cause its what we have to do to keep going.
simon lenihanParticipantwelcome bruce,
Its great to have you on board, shoeing is quiet costly this side of the pond with prices running to £80 [$160 ] per horse . It is illegal for anyone other than a qualified farrier in this country to shoe horses. The question i want to ask is in relation to size of nails used on draft horses in general. we use size 7 shoes and the farriers insist on driving size 8 nails, i have asked for size 12 nails to be driven but to no avail, there arguement being that should a shoe be pulled off with the bigger nails it would result in some of the hoof wall being damaged, i can see some logic in this but with some shoes coming off 2 or 3 days after shoeing it ends up being quiet costly.
regards, simon lenihanParticipantjim, trycod liver oil and cider vinegar.
simon lenihanParticipantWhen working very steep rocky ground i feel the farm horse would be found wanting. Most of our work is on steep ground and on alot of occasions the horses will work loose. The logging horse who is used to working in difficult conditions will know when to shoot to the side when the load starts to run and hold the load, will trot over a hill to keep the load going, knowing if he stops in a dip he will not be able to start the load again. I have no doubt that any horse can be trained for forestry but i believe the longer you leave it the harder it gets.
simon lenihanParticipantA detailed horselogging study was carried out in ireland about 13 years ago by the forestry contractors association. The aims of the study was to promote horse logging to the relevant bodys and to do a proper costing. The costing was to establish what a horse logger should be paid per tonne in commercial thinnings, no just to stay in business but to make a profit [ no one goes into business to make a loss ]. We based the study on a single horse logger with 2 horses / chainsaws / and related equipment, everything was covered, from replacement of chainsaw boots to depreciation of equipment and future purchace of horses etc. It worked out at £24 per tonne, the price horse loggers were paid that year was £13.50 in commercial thinnings. well as they say in ireland we must not be dealing with the full shilling to continue working knowing that we were working at a loss, jason is right when he says put a fair value on your superior services, but with the majority of business being run by accountants who balance the books yearly the outlook is bleak.
Participantjason, I hope forest owners look at your organization as a means of harvesting their timber on a long term basis. I have seen so many horse loggers over the years working on large conifer plantations, removing crap timber with the promise of being able to come back for the second harvest, it seldom happened.
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