[Thecowboysgirl]

Hey all– I wrote a response to this thread that apparently got deleted….but at any rate…I really appreciate & got insight from everyone’s comments and suggestions. One thing I think is that I tried to push the duration of the stand for longer than they could do (obviously since we failed) and so I intend to rewind and do smaller steps.

Today I put them both in the roundpen- as usual the gelding can’t wait to join up with me. Got some insight from him though- I asked him to stand and when I then ask him to walk off he wants to immediately turn and come back to me. This is a problem driving too. And when standing, he has the urge to pivot around and stand with me, which is what he was doing when I couldn’t get a good stand out of him driving. He wasn’t so much trying to walk off as trying to wiggle around to try and be closer to me. I was able to make it clear to him that I would like him to stand still and not follow me with his head as I walked around behind him, and then got him to walk away from me in a straight line (previously he would swing right back around to come to me). I will practice this all more naked in the roundpen (ha ha he is naked, no harness, not me!!!) before attempting it driving again. Really felt like it was a breakthrough for both of us, though.

Mare as usual will not join up with me, but she did seek me out for the first time. Normally if I take the pressure off her she will stand at the fenceline of the pen and not seek to come to me. This time she did come to me and make contact so that’s new. Her big issue is anxiety about noises so I tied the ole milk jug with gravel to her surcingle and asked her to walk along with me since we had this new kind of partnership and she walked calmly with me despite a concerned look on her face. If I stopped, she would stop. This is all I did with her, since she was able to be relaxed with the noise I took it off her and quit.

Her not wanting to stand was anxiety- which tells me like others said, she didn’t have confidence in me. Today I acutally felt like she had confidence in me and was working with me as opposed to “submitting” to me or tolerating me.

I am going to do these same sorts of things with them for awhile and then try it all ground driving once more and take it baby step by baby step out of the roundpen. I am super confident in the round pen, not so much outside, so we both have to do baby steps out of there till we’ve got it down.

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful responses…really gave me food for thought to go back to the drawing board and today the ponies were happy to work with me and we all felt great afterward. It may take us a year lol but someday they will drive for me!!

[Thecowboysgirl]

My husband and I did measure them with carpenter’s squares, so I feel pretty sure we got a good measurement. Only problem being that they might change shape (the ponies).

Okay, so thanks a lot everyone for input. I am not going to order collars from that first website, I am going to find a collar shop who can give me a more specific fit.

I still personally like the idea of the adjustable collar…but maybe will also wait to hear what the collar shop folks say.

[Thecowboysgirl]

Would an adjustable collar give her any leeway in the width? Or only height from top to bottom?

Grey, do you or anyone have a collar maker of choice? (that will ship long distance)?

I am thinking I could order the harness from this website and the collars from somewhere else.

[Thecowboysgirl]

Re: losing temper & losing horse’s confidence: Agreed 🙁 I did ask my husband if he would come and help me with them when I start them in the harness. He can be an extra set of hands, opinion, and moral support so things don’t go south.

I am going to only do easier things where we are sure to succeed and be happy until the harness comes.

Re: Buttrope, I will try it the first time I hook them in the team harness. I am not going to try to drive them double w/my homemade nonsense

[Thecowboysgirl]

https://www.mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=31&CFID=6226741&CFTOKEN=3c1a81872f5321f9-E029C135-BB5C-0CF0-A25D7BF40B7F3498

Hopefully that link works…this is where I am looking at purchasing harness, collars and forecart from. Any opinions? I have no way of knowing if this is quality stuff or not…the only definite criteria I have is that my harness must be bio or nylon

[Thecowboysgirl]

Re:Collars…we have a very limited budget and have to order everything from far away. There is no local source for harness stuff around here. And the ponies are coming off a two year early retirement to do this job for me so yes, I think they are likely to change shape.

What about ordering a pair of adjustable collars to get them started and then hopefully next year when the money situation isn’t so tight, and they are fit, could possibly order them a regular collar in one size? If I order a single size and it doesn’t fit, I’ll have to pay shipping to return it, and shipping again on the new one, and I’ll wind up eating my harness budget before getting stuff that works, I’m afraid.

Thanks everyone for the input on halting. I know from past experience just exactly what everyone means about the energy and thought patterns in the situation where horse/human feed off each other. I know how to go forward with it. I am going to start by putting them both back in the roundpen for some fun relationship building first because I regrettably lost my temper with them last time. not that I beat the crap out of them or anything but I definitely lost my cool and they knew it and we all felt terrible. It will be good anti-stress therapy for me to get over myself and make it work for them lol.

No butt rope- I am still driving them single in a home made contraption of surcingle/breast plate/ home made pvc shafts to pull a tire etc. I have heard arguments for and against butt ropes training teams- what is the concensus on here?

[Thecowboysgirl]

Jared- I KNOW they can read my mind!!! And react to my emotions/attitude, so why can’t I remember that when I’m working them!? I have been just totally overwhelmed lately, two goats in milk, last class before graduation with my bachelor’s, trying to get my nonprofit off the ground and my two teenagers who are in the height of hormonal rampage.

All of my animals, including the ponies are suffering the brunt of my sleep-deprived over-extended lack of patience. Sorry, way more information than anyone probably wanted to know.

I keep trying to decide if I should just quit trying to do anything with the ponies till I graduate in 7 weeks but I don’t want them to sit that long.

Donn I am glad to hear you like the adjustable collars. I thought I wanted to try them but heard less than glowing review on one of the rural heritage videos I bought.

I was thinking of putting them in the team harness and maybe having my husband have hold of a lead line on the one who seems less trustworthy that day. He is good moral support for me so I would be more confident plus maybe he could help me be sure nothing got out of hand. I would probably put him on the mare because she’s nervier and she likes him. The gelding doesn’t like my husband so well, he only has eyes for me.

[Thecowboysgirl]

Donn,

The biggest thing that unnerves these two is being apart from each other. Am I wrong to think that putting them together might help?

they have both pulled a tire single a lot. The mare is still jumpy about noises behind her. She will settle after ten minutes or so of walking.

I am in the process of buying team harness & forecart. Husband is willing to build me a sled, too, so they don’t wreck an expensive forecart if we have a bumpy start.

It is getting pretty hot here midday, I have half a mind to put them in the team harness, ground drive them around their pasture in the sun and then ask them to take a break under their favorite shade tree. I bet that might get the message across. Thought I might to the same with the sled except make sure they would REALLY like to get in the shade before I let them go under there.

They definitely know what whoa means. They just don’t want to stand still all by themselves. The gelding is either trying to turn around and come back to me, or wanting to go to her, whichever one of us is closer.

I probably got obsessed with the halt and made it worse by drilling it, too….when what they really need is to move more…

[Thecowboysgirl]

Wheels or not?

One last question….I thought they should never hook to anything with wheels in the beginning but then recently someone said they didn’t find that to be true.

I have a small dump cart a little bigger than a wheelbarrow that weighs practically nothing empty. It is kind of rattly and noisy but I pull it around them all the time while working so they have heard and seen it alot.

They could pull that with their current pretend harness. Any thoughts of when/if I should try to use that? Based on what Donn just said this cart falls into the light and noisy category so it would be one of the last things I would attempt, I think.

[Thecowboysgirl]

At any rate, I have not worked either of them in the round-pen in the past few weeks. I did everything in there at first, but they got so good at everything in there I didn’t think we were accomplishing anything any more.

We have been working the milk jugs in the arena, and I also did the motorcycle tire in the arena.

The bucking I am certain was not fear because he would give me a regular rodeo on the longe line back before I started driving him. It was just his idea of a good time. Plus Duke never showed the slightest mental discomfort with anything I’ve hooked to him. He was absolutely unfazed by anything I’ve done to him yet. He’s just an energetic boy. The good news is that he no longer jigs and just walks very calmly, almost lazy.

Daisy is the only one at this point who is a little goosy but her saying she’s goosy is her walking briskly instead of slowly. Neither of them has offered anything like a true spook while ground-driving. I have never had trouble stopping or turning in an eggbutt snaffle. If anything I sometimes have trouble getting or keeping them going.

Donn could you please clarify what you meant “don’t push your luck” with the tire. Meaning I should not have them pull the tire again right now? Or I should not try to school a trot with the tire? (wasn’t planning to do that, by the way) Are you suggesting that I abandon the tire and try and small log instead? And how big of a piece of wood are we talking- can the horses pull it with just my little breast-plate-and-surcingle rig since I still don’t have a harness.

My plan moving forward is to work Daisy more with the jugs until she is unfazed at the start. she always settles down very quickly but she still starts a little nervous. Neither one of them cared even a little about pulling the tire, but I guess i had thought I would do it a few more times just for practice’s sake.

I can see that heavier and quieter would have been a better start—I didn’t have the breast plate to start with so I started light because of lack of proper equipment. Luckily the ponies have been really good sports.

[Thecowboysgirl]

Andy- I had the thought while driving him with the milk jugs, “if he doesn’t care about this, surely he would pull a tire if I asked him to”. If I had a harness, I probably would just do it. If I only walk him while driving he is fairly unshakable. It is only when I ask him to trot that he will ocassionally be a turd.

I have the “no wheels” rule in my head. My plan was tire and then sled of some sort. Hubby has agreed to build it. Hubby is a very good builder of nearly anything. He looked at a picture of a milking staunchion on the internet and scaled it down to my nigerian dwarf’s size and built me a lovely staunchion in a day.

Gordon- thank you for reassuring me that riding these ponies is not cruel and unusual lol. I think perhaps the next time I drive Duke I will ride him first and let him move some. I would like him to go quiet with the milk jugs. I really couldn’t have asked Daisy to go any better than she already did. Btw the pony your son is on is like the spitting image of Daisy.

So I am thinking I will ride Duke, then drive him when he’s less fresh. But should I still try to get him to trot quietly while ground driving or should I just walk only?

My one only other concern about Duke is that he is a bit creaky in his joints. I can see him take a funny step every once in awhile when he has to make a sharp turn. He has fluid puffs at and right above his fetlock joint on all four legs- this is old, like windpuffs. At any rate, he is not the most sound horse I have ever seen, but he is clearly not too lame to do some work either. Does that effect anyone’s opinion of me riding him? Daisy is quite sound and sturdy, she actually looks just like the pony in Gordon’s pics.

I have ridden him and did not see him being any worse for wear afterward, and he does not feel like he struggles. (did I just answer my own question lol?)

[Thecowboysgirl]

To be clear though, I did tell him to trot. They don’t just trot off whenever they feel like it.

[Thecowboysgirl]

Why trot them? I guess mainly to get them some exercise.

To get the jugs to make a different noise for them to hear

To practice voice commands

But mainly it was to try and get them a little cardio. But if I shouldn’t trot them, we can just walk. Then I just have to get back on the halfinger diet so I can ride the buggers.

[Thecowboysgirl]

Jonathan,

You reminded me that I also worked with a stud who was very much like the one you described. Such a gentleman. He could walk past a mare in a 12 ft hallway and would never mount, even when he was being actively hand bred.

I’ve known other studs I wouldn’t trust half so much but they were generally the ones who were isolated and treated like monsters. The nice one was treated like a normal horse but only handled by experienced folks and expected to mind his manners.

Hopefully Daisy will be a good girl. We haven’t had any incidents recently. And there have been a few times that I saw her start to make faces and I warned her she better knock it off and she did.

[Thecowboysgirl]

SW Florida pasture is notoriously crappy. Ours is better than most because we actually have some topsoil, most people just have sugar sand. But regardless, the grass is supposed to be very poor nutrition. It was a recomendation from the vet to supplement with some sort of multi…though I will admit it’s probably overkill, and I just like to fuss over my animals.

I know why people have reservations about hand-feeding, and I have been watching them for any behavior stemming from it that I don’t like and so far we’re good. They don’t hassle me or chew on me.

Another reason I am happy to have gotten into haflingers…anythign else could not live on my pasture but they are STILL fat lol despite it’s dry and the grass isn’t even really growing.

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