4 Abreast (or more)

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  • April 29, 2009 at 7:45 pm #52022
    near horse
    Participant

    While I’ve already demonstrated my lack of knowledge on this thread once already, I still need to ask more dumb-ish questions. After looking at the haying pics of Donn’s I want to know why have check lines/jockey sticks AND still have regular lines on the inside animals at all – I assume there’s some semblence of control by tying them back to the britchen ring (as Ronnie mentioned) but is it necessary? Just inquiring.

    Also, Donn, what were you using as a forecart running that baler? I couldn’t tell if the baler was a PTO drive run from the cart (brand and motor size?) or an engine driven baler. Are you happy with the power output of the cart to handle the baler (and I assume the haybine too)?

    Thanks.

    April 29, 2009 at 8:58 pm #52015
    Donn Hewes
    Keymaster

    Hi Geoff, quick reply as I am about to get off of work and ride my bike home! I think you are mixing two different systems together. With my lines to the out side horses there are no jockey sticks at all. When people use jockey sticks they put the lines on the horses in the middle and use the jockey stick to control the horses that are added to the outside.

    My cart is a homemade/amish made three wheeled cart with a 25 hp Honda eng. and hydraulics I can control with my foot. I have used it for about three years and I love it. I use a seven foot haybine but I could easily run a nine. Wish I had one. The four head can fill a wagon with hay bales before they need a brake. Making hay with it is alot of fun. The neck yokes were my idea. Each side is an indepentant yoke that snaps on. That can be used. Fire call.

    April 29, 2009 at 11:50 pm #52023
    near horse
    Participant

    Thanks Donn – I went and looked at more of your pics and saw a clearer view of the forecart (in “equipment” I think). When you say homemade/Amish made – does that mean you modified an Amish made cart or bought a cart homemade from an Amish? I would be very interested in how it’s designed – I’m thinking about using some of the parts from my old Versatile swather (hydraulics etc) just need a power source smaller thatn a 200 ci Ford engine.

    As far as my question goes, the jockey stick was not the point so let me try again:

    After looking at the haying pics of Donn’s I want to know why have check lines AND still have regular lines on the inside animals at all – I assume there’s some semblence of control by tying them back to the britchen ring (as Ronnie mentioned) but is it necessary?

    April 30, 2009 at 1:34 am #52016
    Donn Hewes
    Keymaster

    Geoff it is a little hard to explain how the cart came about. I welded a three wheeled logging cart. Then I took it to a professional welder who improved my front pivot, etc. I welded some more. Than a few years pass and I take it to an amish shop and ask for a motor and hydraulics. They do a great job as that shop has a nack for belts and pulleys and levers. I wanted a brand new honda eng. with a key start. Very quiet and I don’t like to fix motors. Would have used diesel but couldn’t afford it. Since then I have welded a little here and there and last winter I added hydraulic brakes.

    Long answer, it is a one off. No more like it.

    Unfortunately, I still can’t understand your question about the lines. I don’t mind trying so ask it again. You said it wasn’t a question about the jockey stick, but then you mentioned tying them back which is part of that system. The only system I know really well is the one I use. Is that the one you are asking about? In the pictures you can see I use reg. team lines and four short straps. Two short straps in the center and one to bring the left most horse to the right, and one to bring the right most horse left? You will just have to drop by!

    I reread your question and I will take a crack at it even though I think you are asking about the jockey stick system. With that system the team lines go to the center two horses just as if that was all your were driving. Now you add a horse on each side and basically that horse is being driven/lead by the horse it is next to. When you steer the center two to the right the jockey stick on the right most horse is turning his head to the right and keeping the space between him and the horse next to him; The jockey stick to the left most horse mean while is sort of leading him to the right. The buck back to the harness of the center horses just keeps the jockey stick horses from working ahead of the center two. It is a way of letting the center horses do some of the work of driving the other two. I have driven a couple of amish teams but the only system you really understand is the one you use all the time. I all ways find it interesting to learn more about other ways of doing it.

    After reading the question a third time it is possible that you were asking something else entirely. If you are looking a picture of the team from the front it is a little confusing as to what is a line, or a stub line, or just a check rein to hold their head. All those animals have some loose check attached to their bit. The picture from the rear shows it best; my team lines go to the left side of the left two and the right side of the right two. Everything else is a short strap from the hames to the bit. When I drive them I think about it this way. I steer two to the left and two are lead to the left. I steer two to the right and two are lead to the right. I am sure I have confused you by now! Donn

    May 16, 2009 at 1:47 am #52007
    J-L
    Participant

    Donn, I just went ahead and hooked up today and drug about 6 acres with my tire drag(harrow). I told you elsewhere I was going to make my crosschecks 38″ and they worked really well with little adjustment. The only one needing any adjusting was the little tiny blue mule. Hers had to be let out a ways.
    As you said, there really is not necessity for any buck back’s. I think this is the crux of Geoff’s question, and the part that puzzled me too.
    Geoff, it doesn’t really make sense until you hook up and see it physically. It just works.
    I’d like to try Ronnie’s method as well, but don’t have time to modify everything and fine tune it so will just stick to this way and get my barley in. Hopefully tomorrow and Sunday.
    It was fun to juggle the mules around until I found where they were comfortable working in the hitch. One mule in particular just didn’t care to be on the outside and made a point of letting me know. When I stuck him in the middle he just dropped his head and went to work.
    One thing I’ll say is that it is quite a bit different than driving a pair or even three abreast. Lot’s more lag time on the turns, especially at first. Lot’s of fun though and considerable more horsepower.
    I’ll try and get some pic’s tomorrow putting in the grain.

    May 16, 2009 at 4:39 am #52009
    Andre
    Participant

    I would be happy to do a multiple hitching demonstration, as Sam would too I’m sure. Sam and I will have the horses there I think (Carl)? I had the pleasure of working with Donn last year with 4 abreast on his cart. He would be the best to explain the procedure. (Donn)? 2 4 6 8 how many horses should participate? Any chance to encourage folks to use the horses that stand idle while the tractor drives by is enough for me. NEAPD has been as much as a learning experience as it has a teaching one. Carl and crew have done an excellent job putting these people together.

    May 16, 2009 at 9:51 am #52002
    Carl Russell
    Moderator

    Good discussion folks. As I have no application for more than 2, I had not been reading here, so I just picked up on the mention of the field days. I expect Andre, Sam, and Bob Crichton to all have multiples there this fall. I will definitely work out a workshop on hitching, possibly starting with 1, and moving on up to 8, 3 hr intensive Sat am.

    Carl

    May 16, 2009 at 10:58 am #52018
    Donn Hewes
    Keymaster

    Hello Carl, Andre, and everyone, JL, Glad to hear you hooked up the four. It is funny how some people just like working with one or two which is great; and other’s just keep wanting to add more horses! Even though I enjoy a team as much as the next person, I must confess to a thrill from even three or four.

    I would love to work with Andre and Sam on multiple hitches. I am at my best on animals abreast. I can show at least three different ways to drive them. I have almost no experience with the tandem hitch, ( doubled my knowledge last year! Thanks again) but I am a good hand.

    Carl, if you are taking notes already, the other thing I would like to do is bring my mower with the dolly wheel. I would like to work with someone with another mower and two teams. One with D ring harness and one with out. it would make a good illustration for folks about how the two harnesses are different and how they should fit, and how they work. Also makes a good mower demo as you find interesting things to talk about on each machine. There was a women there last year with a mower and a nice team of horses. I wish I could remember her name. I would love to work with someone like that. Time to feed sheep. Donn

    May 18, 2009 at 4:37 am #52008
    J-L
    Participant

    Well I got 7 acres of barley planted this afternoon. I thought it went pretty well. It did surprise me how much ground we covered in a short time. 4 head on that little drill (10′ I think) barely broke a good sweat. Granted they are already legged up pretty good, but still it surprised me how much work we got done for no more time than we spent.
    We only have another 8 acres to plant now. I’ve got to get the rock picked first. The little patch produce 4 good sized dump truck loads of good old Wyoming rocks. I wish we could sell them!
    Am pretty sure the kids are glad for school tomorrow. Lot’s of sun burnt necks and tender fingers to go with some sore muscles.
    I’ll get some pic’s posted soon as my friend gets them emailed to me.

    May 18, 2009 at 3:39 pm #52017
    Donn Hewes
    Keymaster

    They will get a chance to break a sweat this summer. There are many jobs I do were my animals never get tired. But it is amazing how much I get done, and I never have to slow down. The rest breaks are few and short. More horses makes light work!

    JL, it sounds like fun, I hope we see some pictures. Donn

    May 19, 2009 at 6:14 am #52026
    OldKat
    Participant

    @Donn Hewes 8883 wrote:

    Hello Carl, Andre, and everyone, JL, Glad to hear you hooked up the four. It is funny how some people just like working with one or two which is great; and other’s just keep wanting to add more horses! Even though I enjoy a team as much as the next person, I must confess to a thrill from even three or four.

    I would love to work with Andre and Sam on multiple hitches. I am at my best on animals abreast. I can show at least three different ways to drive them. I have almost no experience with the tandem hitch, ( doubled my knowledge last year! Thanks again) but I am a good hand.

    Carl, if you are taking notes already, the other thing I would like to do is bring my mower with the dolly wheel. I would like to work with someone with another mower and two teams. One with D ring harness and one with out. it would make a good illustration for folks about how the two harnesses are different and how they should fit, and how they work. Also makes a good mower demo as you find interesting things to talk about on each machine. There was a women there last year with a mower and a nice team of horses. I wish I could remember her name. I would love to work with someone like that. Time to feed sheep. Donn

    Is NOT Donn Hewes! (Didn’t want that title to confuse anyone :D) It IS to drive 8 head; 4 and 4 to a disc or other field implement. 🙂 Something like the picture Plowboy posted a month or so back. It could actually happen now; as a guy just recently moved to our county from Hawaii and he brought 6 Clydesdales with him (and one has since foaled). So maybe now I will have someone I can combine my two black mares with for a multiple hitch. I can’t wait until he and his family get settled in so we can start driving together. He is about 10 years younger than me, but has about 30 years experience driving drafters … I may finally have a mentor prospect!

    May 20, 2009 at 1:56 am #52004
    Plowboy
    Participant

    Old Kat, I hope you get to do it someday. It is gratifying to drive a big hitch especially when you’ve raised and trained most of them yourself. We had a 12 planned for this year but time and horse constraints wouldn’t allow it but next year looks good at this point. We have 8 of our own but one of our friends bought the hitch gear at an auction for a 20 so that may happen at some point. I’m not sure if it would be practical but it would be an achievement and something that may be a once in a lifetime thing. My friends/mentors that want to do these things are getting older every year so we might be busy the next few years.

    May 20, 2009 at 2:18 am #52027
    OldKat
    Participant

    @Plowboy 8942 wrote:

    Old Kat, I hope you get to do it someday. It is gratifying to drive a big hitch especially when you’ve raised and trained most of them yourself. We had a 12 planned for this year but time and horse constraints wouldn’t allow it but next year looks good at this point. We have 8 of our own but one of our friends bought the hitch gear at an auction for a 20 so that may happen at some point. I’m not sure if it would be practical but it would be an achievement and something that may be a once in a lifetime thing. My friends/mentors that want to do these things are getting older every year so we might be busy the next few years.

    You would plow with a 20 horse hitch? What time of year would you do that? I might be interested in coming up to your place to see that! (Seriously)

    May 20, 2009 at 5:51 am #52030
    CharlyBonifaz
    Member

    that may be a once in a lifetime thing. My friends/mentors that want to do these things are getting older every year so we might be busy the next few years.

    go for it!
    I would at least want to see a picture of it in here 😉
    these things mean lots of work, but so much fun…….
    elke

    May 21, 2009 at 12:43 am #52005
    Plowboy
    Participant

    It’s still in the early planning stages so far but I’ll keep you posted. We probably would use a disc or disc + spring tooth harrow. I think 20 might be hard to manuever with a moldboard plow. In any practical situation I think one man working more than 12 would be too much but it would be fun to try once.

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