a close call

[Carl Russell]

@Tim Harrigan 38438 wrote:

No, I was not thinking live feed. Maybe considered discussion in video format, closer to the give and take on the forum except enhanced with video.

I’m open to it. I was originally just referring to the discussion between me and my apprentice(?), as I want to try to get some of the direct descriptions and logic that I use when covering this with novices, backed up by physical demonstrations.

when I first started with draft horses my mentor went out and got me a green 2yr old to start with
I feel it was the best way to start for me the colt knew nothing and I knew nothing
he showed me how to fit the harness then said go ground drive did that for weeks before he saw we were competent in starting stopping and backing he then showed me how to hitch single to a wagon and said drive if things get hairy just drive I want to find you and the horse together no matter what he also said he didnt care if I AND THE HORSE WRECKED AND DIED HE WANTED TO FIND ME WITH THE COLT AND MY HANDS ON THE LINES the lines have been in my hand ever since
bILL

OMG Bill, that is so true. My dad sat me on a horse and slapped its ass. I bought my first horse (green) because one of my mentors said “If I wanted to learn how to log with a horse, I would buy me a horse, and go logging”.

I know I found competency with horses long before I understood what I think I do now:rolleyes:, so I don’t think that novices should be expected to come all the way up to speed. I also know that folks these days are looking for guidance, and I think it has a lot to do with what Donn was saying about the lack of familial and cultural historical knowledge.

I also expect that my project will not so much lay out a “program”, as much as I hope it will show how I think novices should learn to approach communicating with the working horse.

In the long run it really comes down to never letting go of the lines doesn’t it? Metaphorically and physically, holding on to the lines represents that serious commitment to being a part of the process of getting from here to there……. where ever, and however that ends up being.

Carl

[Billy Anderson]

I use to ride when i was younger but had gave up for many years. A few years ago finances and my life being in a place that has allowed me to have horses again saw me buying a green clyde. My girlfriend has been involved with ridden horses her whole life but had no experience working horses for draft. She is meticulous in the care and welfare of horses and has been a great teacher to me, although taking orders from your other half can be difficult at times :confused: haha. It has become my passion but has been a steep learning curve for me and horse, with mistakes that helped teach me what NOT to do! Luckily me and the horse have both bounced back unscaved and moved on from them successfully. I have read numerous books, information from here and asked many questions to horseman who work with draft animals.
I also got introduced to Equitation Science. This was fundamental in my understanding of how horses work. It helped train me to train the horse. It laid the foundation for Go, Stop, park, yield and head control, working in hand. In a very short time he was doing what i asked of him with very slight pressure. Learning the correct timing for releasing the pressure made him much calmer and willing. It changed our working relationship, its as if he trusted my leadership. This foundation then made the next move on to driving etc much more easier.
I do feel that not everyone has the competence to work with horses in any discipline. Off course we all make mistakes and hopefully learn not to repeat them. It seems when it comes to animal welfare some folks mistake this living animal for some kind of machine. There is livery yard not far from us and when my GF was pregnant she thought it would be a good idea to lend her sports horse out. A group from the yard suggested a guy, who had some years experience with horses would exercise him as he was at present without his own horse. This turned out to be not so wise. He was asked to bring him into work slowly and build his fitness up as he had not been out for a while. So on his first outing they all went away for 2 1/2 hours which included a beach gallop!?? Needless to say he was sore for a few days and hobbled about the field. He then started to lose a shoe which the chap decided he would remove, as seemingly he knew how to. He was asked to wait half hour as i was en-route with tools in hand to do it properly. Before i got down It appeared he had just yanked off leaving nails behind which caused a huge abscess. Horse out of work again. My GF gave the guy benefit of the doubt and another chance. So foot all better. Now remember build him up slowly. Low and be-hold same scenario as before only this time managed to pull bit through his mouth (it was the horses fault according to the chap! eh??) which has left him with a nasty scar. Now my GF beats herself up for lending him out. Thing is, since that episode we hear stories about all sorts of stupid mis-management from this group of horse lovers at that yard. Its these kind of people, that no matter how much you tell them the correct way they just don’t have enough savvy to see that this is a living breathing thing that feels pain, but yet somehow believe it has enough intelligence to reason and workout situations for itself. Although we are much more humane to horses these days, that way of thinking is a hidden danger to them.

[jen judkins]

@Carl Russell 38434 wrote:

I just can’t resist mentioning that you won’t see any tape of me tying the horse to a post and throwing himself until he learns to stand….:p

Thank the light! Barbaric, stoopid practice, that is. No feel, no communication involved.

[mitchmaine]

I know (and it was mentioned here) that in the not too distant past, the only method available to would be teamsters was to buy a horse, and mentor or not, hitch up and go, learn as you went , drink heavy and hope for the best. A bunch of us did it and made it through alive to tell, with some great stories to boot.
My ‘ worry’ is that in our digital dvd/computer world, that the very tool, that brings information, might in fact, inhibit some potential teamsters from biting the bullet, stepping up and going for it. Waiting for some moment when the machine or someone tells them that the time is right.
My hope is that carl’s green horse/greenhorn thread could be a great way to “humanize” the process, by watching someone with new and limited skills struggle a little to find their way. The “how to” videos are wonderful, and show all how something should be done, but a good screw-up video, adds some reality to the process, and a little humility, and might help nudge a few wanna-be’s into the game.
Great idea, carl. Can’t wait to see it happen. mitch

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