A wild ride and a question about bits

[Ellen Anderson]

After months of having a well behaved horse pulling logs, we hitched Fanny up to the new Pioneer Forecart on Wednesday. My son walked behind the cart holding the reins – a friend and I walked next to her head. All was well for the first walk around the yard. Then a couple of chickens ran in her path while she was walking down the drive. The forecart made a rattling sound and we were off to the races. We jumped out of the way. She ran down to the state highway and then ran uphill for about 1/2 mile leaving my son on his face on the ground. She slowed down near the top of the hill (after trying to race the truck) and neither she nor the cart was the worse for their maiden voyage. She did not appear to be afraid – hardly winded and no sweat at all! We walked her hitched for awhile so she wouldn’t get the idea that this is a good way to avoid having a cart behind. Then we unhitched and walked her home in the D-ring harness only. She pulled some logs that day and we worked her yesterday as well.

She has always gone fine on a snaffle bit and I have been told by a driving instructor that I should be getting a liverpool bit with a mullen mounth. Is that right? No tack shop around here (Central Massachusetts) carries that. Where should I go?

Was it a bad idea to start out without a human in the cart? He didn’t have much leverage being way back there behind the cart. On the other hand, he might have been tossed out. He wants to be in the cart next time but I am feeling worried about it.

She is an 8-year-old with lots of riding experience, one month of riding when she was 3 and about 3 months of pulling logs.

[grey]

Yes, it was a bad idea to drive the cart on foot. As you found, one quick hop forward and your lines are gone. If someone had been aboard, most likely they could have regained control.

She now has a runaway under her belt. You will have to be extra-careful next time you go to put her to the cart. Maybe you had better spend some time desensitizing her to the rattle of the cart before you hitch to it again.

[mitchmaine]

hi ellen,
wondering if your horse(presuming too) has ever been in shafts? that can be a new ezperience for sure. it is a pretty confing space and a horse needs time to get aquainted to that.

meaders up in rochester(n.h.) will have liverpools. probably about $30 – 40 a peice. there is a lot of different opinions on that bit, but i have used them on some pretty headstrong horses and held them. the horses i use now are pretty good and the lines are hooked into the sidering and the curb is loose to its last ring and its a pretty easy bit on them. it has a wide arrangement of pressure and good to have at times. goodluck with your horse.

[jen judkins]

Sorry to hear about your runaway, Ellen. That’s always alittle discouraging. I know you have worked really slow and careful with your mare. I am certainly not an expert trainer, but over the past year I have been fortunate enough to help several new teamsters get their single horse hitched to a wheeled cart for the first time and have some thoughts.

First, some people start young horses to a cart by hooking them with a veteran horse and while I know that’s not an option for you, I bring it up because they typically can get started just about anywhere….in a field, on a road or in the woods without getting into too much trouble. Doc Hammill is pretty firm about starting a single horse to a cart in an enclosed space….round pen, arena or small fenced area. If your mare had been in an enclosed space she might have gotten away from you, but could not ‘run away’. I recommend Doc Hammill’s ‘ten steps’ DVD series, which outlines the steps to hooking to a cart (including getting the horse used to the shafts, as Mitch mentioned).

Second, there are several parts of the cart that the horse needs to gain confidence with. And a horse does not get experience with all of these ‘parts’ skidding wood or ground driving. These ‘parts’ represent pressure that the horse has to learn to be comfortable with. First is the pressure of the collar or breast collar. Your mare probably has enough experience with this pressure from skidding wood. Second is the breeching pressure, which only engages properly when going down hill or when your horse backs up into a load. Most people overlook this area of the horse’s education and are surprised when their horse over-reacts the first time the breeching gives them a squeeze from behind. Most horses who do not understand this pressure will move forward away from it…sometimes in a panic. The last is the shafts. You can build a travois (or false shalves) pretty easily which can help you with both of those latter pressures. There is an article on Doc Hammill’s website describing how to build one. You might consider going to that briefly before going back to the cart…as a bridge between the cart and ground driving. You can’t backup in the travois, but you can back your mare into the breeching to get her more confident with it.

Last is the cart itself. You may have done this, but I like to enlist some help and have the cart follow the horse for awhile, including sharp turns where the horse can even see the cart, without it being attached to them.

We only hitch to the cart when the horse shows calm confidence with all of the pressures mentioned above and the cart traveling close behind them.

I’m glad no one was hurt and your new cart is still in one piece. Don’t be discourage or afraid to go forward. Just take alook at where your holes are and go back and patch them up. 😮

[Ellen Anderson]

Fanny was at Larry Poulin’s for one month when she was 3 years old. She pulled a cart every day. It was not a forecart, it didn’t rattle and the harness was not a D-ring.
She pulled the cart all of the way down the driveway, down the street and up the driveway and around the barnyard. She stopped and started fine. We used the snaffle bit that we have been using for logging. The trouble started when we went to go around the other way. The cart hit a low part of the driveway and made a big clattering noise. It was also a bit steep so the breeching may have goosed her. She just spooked and took off.
She has never done anything like this before and I have owned her since she was a yearling. Mostly she is a very calm sensible horse. Maybe it was a combination of the clattering, the breeching and the lack of rein control.
We have been working her in harness every day since the wild ride.
I am going to order the bit from Meader. I don’t know that it will fit on the bridle I got with the harness from Bob Boynton. I am going to need a 5 1/2″ bit and that means I have to shorten the strap on the bridle and it may not have room.

[Ellen Anderson]

I think I have the Doc Hamil DVD. I had better watch it!

[carl ny]

If your headstall works with the snaffle, it should work with the liverpool. Remember ,you need a curb chain with a liverpool. A liverpool is a great bit,I use one for all my driving. Just remember “soft hands”, you can exert a lot of pressure very easily.JMHO

carl ny

[Big Horses]

Some good advice given! For sure, the most important thing is to try NOT to have a runaway…. but I was taught that if for some reason you do, get control of the situation and about the time you figure they’re going to start slowing down, now it’s time to run. Run ’em until they’re about to drop and show them that this isn’t so much fun anymore. I hate to do it that way and always try to not get into that situation, but have straightened out a few teams for people that have let them get away with it, and it works.
I agree with Carl NY on the Liverpool bits…just because you can get that leverage, doesn’t mean you have to use it…. soft hands are the rule… we drive in Liverpool or Military Elbow’s always when doing carriage work. Glad to hear you hooked her again that day and got some work done sucessfully. Too many people get scared and quit…not a good thing at all.
John

[Ellen Anderson]

I really appreciate all of these comments and am sending them around to my support team. I ordered the bit from Meader and it should be here by Wednesday. We will keep the cart in an enclosed area for the foreseeable future.

[grey]

The cheek pieces on some bridles are too wide to fit into the top slot on a shanked bit like a millitary elbow, Buxton or Liverpool. “Noseband bridles” that have a separate “bit loop” strap that attaches the bit to the bridle should work with the millitary elbow, Buxton or Liverpool bits. However, if the cheek piece of the bridle goes all the way down and terminates in a buckle and billet, that billet is sometimes too wide to fit into anything but the ring on a snaffle.

Noseband bridle that utilizes a bit loop/bit strap:

Bridle where the cheek piece terminates in a buckle and billet:

[grey]

I remembered to measure my millitarty elbow bit today and the perch (where the bridle buckles onto the bit) will just barely accommodate a 1″ strap. So if your cheekpiece billet or bit strap is 1″ wide or less, it would work with this particular bit. Don’t know if there are different dies for this bit. I imagine so. Other brands could theoretically vary in proportions. This one is branded “Coronet”.

Also, in case it matters, the slots in the shanks of this bit are just a hair too narrow for 1″ lines. Widest line you can fit in the slots would be 7/8ths.

Maybe someone has a liverpool they could measure for you.

[grey]

Oh, and just in case you don’t have enough bits yet and you think you would like more of them, here’s one or two different Liverpools. http://www.drivingessentials.com/liverpool_list.php

[jen judkins]

I will second Grey on the Liverpools. While I drive all my horses on the snaffle (highest, no leverage) setting, I set it down when I am starting a new horse or working on any new equipment. Just temporarily, until I am convinced they are confident with the task at hand. Sometimes it is overkill and unnecessary, but better safe than sorry and I can jump out and set the reins up to the snaffle setting in a jif. The bit is only as harsh as your hands are. A broken snaffle can be way more harsh than a mullen mouth liverpool.

[carl ny]

I agree,it’s all in the hands..I too use it as necessary.

carl ny

[Ellen Anderson]

Thanks, all. I got the new bit from Meader last week and we have been using it since then. What an impressive big thing it is. I have never used anything but a snaffle. The first day she was antsy about it, but now she is fine. We have just been logging. After this storm passes we will be back at it.

I am waiting until I have more help – and maybe even an experienced driver – before I try the cart again. But the bit just barely fit on my existing bridle so at least that problem is solved. I will develop a battle plan and run it by you all. Looking for my Doc Hamill DVD. If the lights don’t go out I might have time to watch it tonight.

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