Adaptability of horses and human emotions

[Donn Hewes]

I am starting a thread just because it is cold out and I will go out and plow the snow in a little while. These are just some thoughts / suggestions for folks starting out. There may well be another point of view.

Let me begin by stating the obvious. I believe horses and mules have an amazing ability to adapt themselves (specifically how they learn, how they work, and how they relate to people). Some times this ability goes beyond what we could even imagine and we are continually humbled by the usefulness it affords us.

Humans are rightly one of the most adaptable animals also. So how do we decide who should adapt to a given situation? Is it possible to abuse the horses ability to adapt rather than make the fullest use of it?

Now to the point of my thread. In my experience, horses and mules do not naturally react to displays of human emotions, anger, frustration, even great joy, the way other humans do. Typically the more expressive we become of these feelings, the more confused they become. Can horses and mules adapt to these displays of emotion? Absolutely, I have seen some great teams that worked for loud and effusive teamsters. Just to repeat, their ability to adapt can be amazing. (much the same can be said about training a dog, I feel)

But is this the best use of that ability? What have we asked of our own ability to adapt? What effort have we made to understand how horse’s think, feel, and react? I would suggest to those just starting out with draft animals to look closely at how they interact, yes there is the occasional squeal or whinny, but by and large, these animals prefer to have things quiet and settled.

To get the most out of our working partners, in some cases, it may be more productive to adapt ourselves than to always look to them to do the adapting. Watch two people harness a horse. They both know how and use the same method, both horses have the same history and about the same demeanor. But one will all ways struggle slightly, throughout the process, while the other doesn’t. The difference is often how well the people have adapted themselves to the animals natural energy level. If you work with a quite, centered rythme, that displays little emotion these animals will naturally respond with the same energy.

This control of your demeanor will be the first step in a sound productive relationship with working animals. Donn

[mitchmaine]

hey donn, interesting thought. we all, humans and animals alike, use our 5 senses to “read” our surroundings and adapt accordingly. for safety reasons mostly,but for other purposes too. do you think, because we talk, that we gave up other skills we had before language, just because words seem to work so well. and that in reality horses, say, are reading us on levels we lost thousands of years ago. or traded for language anyway. and if we kept at it and trusted our senses we could actually redevelop a language without words we could use with our animals that was far better than the method we use. i think that we actually do, but don’t know it. what do you think?

[sanhestar]

Donn,

when I took classes in horsemanship we made the experience that horses understand “true” emotions like anger or affection but can’t relate to “mixed” or “untrue” emotions like frustration or frustated/bottled anger or hate or revenge.

For me it became the purpose of being around horses to be honest with my emotions (very much to the disliking of the humans around me….)

[grey]

It is my opinion that the teamster should train himself. He should develop and hone his skills to be able to communicate more effectively with horses, rather than rely on training the horses to learn a more “human” method of communication. Any allegations of abuse aside, I believe this is simply a more efficient way of approaching the “language barrier” problem between horses and humans.

If you are going to work more than one team of horses during your lifetime, I think you will be weeks and months ahead of schedule per horse if you use the “train thyself” approach. If you work many horses during your lifetime, this will add up to years of saved time.

Think of the self-training as an investment, or resources spent on “R&D” (research and development). Sure, the initial time outlay might be a bit more “expensive” in the beginning with the first team or two, but with each subsequent team of horses you train, the time-cost per team will go down because you will be getting better and better at it.

If you take the “train the horses” approach and focus on teaching the horses to communicate in a more human manner, you definitely can get to the same place in the end as with a team of horses worked/trained by a teamster to has invested in training himself to communicate in a more equine manner.

But if you give those two types of trainers/teamsters five teams apiece, the trainer/teamster who has trained himself first will have five safe and useable teams much sooner than the teamster who must train his horses to understand human methods of communication.

[Carl Russell]

Donn this is a good topic. The day you posted this I had two conversations with different people about this very aspect of being a teamster.

One of the things that I have learned is how horses can tell when you are not in control of your emotions. This is important to them, as this indicates that you are a questionable leader.

That is not to say that they won’t react to a display of “BIG” energy, like an outburst, or forceful frustration, because it is uncomfortable for them. The more important thing is whether they see that you can regain your composure and refocus on your own initiative. And whether you are respectful of their desire to remain calm.

I remember early on when I would blow up because “the GD horse didn’t know what the F… they were doing”, how the animal would sort of recoil, raise his head, and with wide eyes just sort of look at me. I didn’t realize at the time that I should be clear headed enough to take advantage of that moment, because I had the horse’s attention. Rather I would continue to rant and rave, and the horse and I would end up doing this futile dance until I was exhausted, something broke, or by some fluke things would work out.

At some point I came across a video in which a trainer was methodically elevating his energy, and then as soon as the horse did the big eye thing, the trainer would immediately lower his energy, regaining a calm posture. And the horse was glued to him. When I tried this I was floored…..and not only did I learned a lot about horses, but really I began to learn about myself.

When I am working around my animals now, I am constantly watching them to see how they are reacting to the way I conduct myself. If they are indifferent, or ignore me, or are distracted, then I start to increase my energy. I move quicker. I don’t give them as much room, or rest, until they show me that I have gotten their attention, then I “lay on the butter”. I smooth right out.

They are very attracted to the calm behavior, but I think it is more than that. I have seen very calm quiet, almost meek, people try to work around horses, and they invariably get taken advantage of. My sense is that it has more to do with the demonstration of control, as well as the demonstration that I know how much they enjoy the calmness.

In other words I can turn my behavior into the language I use with them. When they are doing just what I want, then I am purposefully demonstrating my approval with calmness. I am not perfect, but blowing up is no longer part of my language.

I can bark, or push, or become physically tense, but I know now how these expressions affect the animals, and I am prepared to immediately regain my composure…in fact I actually can remain composed and still use them…on the surface moving out of the calm space, but underneath I am purposeful and looking for the desired response.

It is an interesting exercise to fake frustration. Stand in front of the horse and tense up. Clench your jaw, and allow the blood to come to your face. Even shake, as if you are about to blow a gasket. The horse will definitely notice, and it is a great exercise in learning how to take control of your physical expressions by then relaxing and letting all of that tension leave your body.

In all of this I have learned to just let the horse be the horse. I think I have learned about how they read me, and I think I have learned about myself. I have adapted, so that my behavior is no longer a semi-conscious reflex reaction, but a purposeful expression of intent.

Carl

[Tim Harrigan]

Carl Russell;14321 wrote:

At some point I came across a video in which a trainer was methodically elevating his energy, and then as soon as the horse did the big eye thing, the trainer would immediately lower his energy, regaining a calm posture. And the horse was glued to him. When I tried this I was floored…..and not only did I learned a lot about horses, but really I began to learn about myself.
Carl

Carl, this is interesting. I also do this from time to time with my cattle. They know they are to stand quietly and not try to graze in the yoke when I am away from them and working. But every day is a new day and a good pair are always wondering if the boundaries that existed yesterday still hold and is today the day they get to drive? So about once every year when the grass is high and I am away from them I will notice them try to grab a bite. I yell head up and they will, but they will start to push it. So after three or four warnings I just drop everything, don’t say anything, and here I come, full speed. They start dancing as soon as they see me coming and I really get in their face. Not mad, but quite a show. Then it is over. I go back to work, they stand and wait. The next time I yell heads up they both look up at the sky.

When I first started working with cattle I was concerned when I would notice them challenging me in subtle ways. Now I know they find comfort in knowing that yesterday’s rules still hold and a good team has a need to know. I might find it hard to fully appreciate a team that never pushed on the edges a little bit. You just have to know when and how to push back.

[Does’ Leap]

When I started with horses a couple of years ago I was asking for advice from Pat Palmer, a teamster and Pioneer dealer in central Vermont. Among the things he suggested was driving horses without a bit using the halter. His reason, as I remember, was to get the horses softer in the mouth and more responsive. For me, the process of removing the bit was a step toward communicating with the horse at his level.

Last winter, I had the vision of riding our horses back and forth to pasture with just a halter and a lead rope serving for the reigns. We played a round a bit with riding our horses, but they had never been ridden prior to our purchasing them. The endeavor evolved many small steps which challenged my ability to communicate with them. The first step was placing a 5 gallon bucket beside them without moving. Every time the horse took a step, I would send him in some circles on the lead rope. I kept my energy neutral and just did my thing. Next step, standing on the bucket beside the horse – same technique. This went on until I could get on the horse without him moving. When finally up on the horse and riding I felt vulnerable but also a fierce determination to exert my leadership with no physical aids. At any point, that horse could do what he wanted with minimal pressure encouraging him to do otherwise.

We progressed to the point where both me and my wife can ride one horse and lead our 2 other horses to pasture (I believe the term is ponying?) bareback with halters. After a hard day’s work they are eager to get out to pasture and it is my presence as leader that keeps them in check. This confidence cannot be faked. I am convinced that anyone who got on any of those horses with any apprehension would be taken advantage of. Likewise, the same horses would keep in check for any other confident leader.

I know ponying or even riding bareback without bit is nothing new or novel, but for me was and continues to be a great way to communicate and connect with horses on a more level playing field.

[LStone]

I agree with what is being said here too. I am strung tight by nature. I found out a long time ago that I am much more effective at communicating with my horses in a mellower state of mind. In fact I make a conscience effort to not just walk into the equine part of my life, and before I go through the fence I pause and physically effort a change of my personality to those characteristics. Especially after I return from my day job, a tough commute, and my bottomless cup o’ coffee. Sometimes it’s a struggle to accomplish but I notice the difference in the way they accept me back into the heard and how receptive they are to my commands and requests if I am successful.

[jen judkins]

I can’t believe I missed this thread. Its a good one and a topic very near to my heart. So I hope no one minds my late arrival:D

I agree, Donn that horses are amazingly adaptable and I am always amazed at the ‘conditions’ they will thrive in. But just because they adapt, does not always make it ideal. Personally, I think the human has the responsibility to adapt to the horse’s perspective, mainly because it is our agenda we are ‘forcing’ upon the horse. While we like to call it a partnership, most of our endeavors with horses are not things a horse would choose to do. We have to constantly keep the horse’s perspective in mind and present our agenda in a way they understand and can feel confidant about. It takes time and study, but, as Grey points out, it is a time saving investment in the long run (assuming one has long term goals working with horses)’

While I agree that horses in general respond to a calm, centered presence, there are times when alittle energy needs to be injected into the equation. At my house, I can see the horses from nearly every window and not a day goes by when I don’t pause to watch them at some point during the day. There are lots of things to observe about their behavior, as you all know. But in general, when left to their own devices the herd maintains a peaceful order, wandering from their feed to the water trough or to their napping areas. They have times when they play or groom each other, but its a very quiet, low energy existance. But sometimes the energy dials up. Something strange comes down the road, or the alpha is moving a youngster away from his pile of hay. There is quick movement that lasts for seconds…minutes at best and then its instantly back to their quiet baseline. I have always been fascinated by this….energy without emotion. Its like martial arts…strike…retreat…reassess.

People are far more complicated in regard to how they process emotions and interpersonal relationships and this is what gets them into trouble with horses (myself included at times). I see a couple of common tendencies in people having trouble with horses. The first is the person (usually a woman:rolleyes:) who cannot be assertive without being mad. This is not effective with horses for a couple of reasons. First, if you wait til you feel anger to assert yourself with a horse, you’ve probably waited too long and have been ineffective. Second, by getting to the point you feel anger, you are generally not in control enough to dial that energy down quickly enough to make any gains in training. The emotion involved is too distracting to both horse and trainer to stay focused on the task at hand in any meaningful way.

The second scenario has to do with ‘congruance’. People have the unique (at least I think it is unique) ability to feel one emotion (fear, anger, frustration) and pretend to feel something else (confident, happy). I’m not sure horses understand this very well and I think they find it confusing. Even though I don’t think horses are much like dogs, I think most animals share an instinct that allows them to sense basic emotions like fear and aggression. So despite the image a person presents, horses have the ability to sense this type of energy, despite the incongruity, if it is present. Horses, in particular, being prey animals, actually use this ability to survive. But the point is, again, this confusion is distracting and detracts from meaningful communication.

Working with horses is awe-inspiring and humbling. When things aren’t going right, I can always find the source of the problem within myself, if I choose to look hard enough. They never lie. Horses have taught me to stay calm and centered, use energy efficiently (as little as necessary) and effectively (enough to get my point across) without emotion, and then be able to instantly dial back down to baseline. When I can’t….I have to walk away and try again later.

I just wish people were as good at giving reliable feedback:eek:!

[Donn Hewes]

Nicely said Jen, you captured a lot of the ideas above. I especially liked “used energy effieciently”. That is the reason why. Learning to understand them a little and learning to adapt myself a little is all about doing it the easy way. Thanks, Donn

[J-L]

It’s ironic that you made this post at the time you did. I have a neighbor who had bought a team in a local sale. I (and lingodog13 and lost farmer) saw this team go through and thought they were a decent, aged team (13 years old) of Percheron horses.
The old guy who bought them has had his hired man and son driving them and has had nothing but trouble with them. Constantly jigging, won’t stand, want to run, etc. I asked him pointedly if his son was driving them and he said yes. The son is a notoriously hot headed fella, who can lose his cool and yell loud enough to scare me, and would definitely get a spooky team un-nerved.
Today after I get done feeding I’m headed to his place to pull shoes and trim that team and if I have time we’re going to hook up and see what’s going on. He’s got plenty of work for them, with a feed trail that’s a good 4 mile round trip daily.
We’ll see if two calm heads can help these horses out. The old guy himself was a good teamster in his day. I’ve seen his other teams work and they were very solid, and he seemed a patient teamster with good hands.

[jen judkins]

I’d be interested, J-L to hear how that goes…

I was at a clinic some years ago and we had a woman there with her ‘highstrung’ TB. In all truth, it was her that was high strung, lol. The horse could not stand still…jigged around the woman like a kite on a string. She asked me to hold onto her horse while she went to use the facilities.

No word of a lie….the moment the lead fell into my hands and the woman turned to leave the arena…the horse planted his feet and put his nose on the ground. Didn’t move a muscle until she returned.

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;14607 wrote:

…….
I just wish people were as good at giving reliable feedback:eek:!

This just got me thinking about this issue a little deeper. It’s kind of interesting how many of us refer to the emotional growth we go through while learning to work with horses. As a culture we really don’t address individual emotional well-being. We are all sort of left out there to fend for ourselves. There are so many ways that people learn to avoid the emotional human experience, drugs, money, sex, work, etc… we just learn to avoid learning anything about how our emotions work… or how to allow ourselves to function emotionally.

Neither of my parents set particularly good examples. And I was always very uncomfortable with the superficiality of most of my exposure to group activities. I was sort of like that TB that Jen mentioned. Not that I was a prancer, but I was a trouble maker. I rejected most of the guidance that was offered to me because it was either hollow, not backed up with solid presence, or it was administered with arrogant and edgy authority.

I have always been very emotional. I did have some good strong connections to peers, and some adults, who, on reflection, we generally very comfortable in their own skin, but as a whole, I grew up feeling left out, because I felt a sensitivity that was not validated.

It wasn’t until I started working with horses that I began to feel how important my emotional character was to how I behaved. And I was floored by the presence of these beasts. It really didn’t matter who I had been the day before, they greeted me each day back at base-line (to steal from Jen). This was so comfortable for me. But it took a while before I realized that that was what was missing from my human cultural experience. And it took a while for me to let-down my defenses.

I have found that once I found that “base-line”, I became much more able to understand and appreciate where I go when I am overwhelmed by emotion. I no longer fight to hold back the emotional experience, which is where the anger/fear/frustration comes from (the fighting of the experience), but can actually be comfortable with the experince of those feelings.

My belief is that it is that comfort that takes shape in the outward personal expression that our animals see. It is not merely a lack of emotion, but a comfort with emotion. It is also a matter of allowing ourselves the freedom to perform in the moment, which is also often difficult with the residual fog of restricted emotional expression.

My personal choices led me to isolation. I bought a horse and headed into the woods to work by myself, to raise my own food, and to find as many ways as possible to take care of myself. However I have been pleasantly surprised by how I have found “REAL” relationships with so many horse, and animal, people. It started small, years ago, some guy with long hair and a beard bidding on the same piece of horse-drawn equipment at a local auction. It has steadily grown, a horse-logger here, a ox-man there, until now at events like NEAPFD I can actually meander among a crowd of people who are all present and without pretense.

There really is something about people who learn to work effectively with horses… and I don’t think it is trivial.

Just as an aside, I had an experience similar to the one described by Jen. I had a young man hanging with me to learn something about working with horses. We went to a field one day because I wanted to pull some shoes, and didn’t want to take the horses back to the barn. He was young, and really quiet, not shy, but a little uncomfortable with himself. He really wanted to explore the way of life, but didn’t have any experience around horses. I told him to hold the lead while I pulled the shoes. I picked up a foot, and my horse wheeled around, yanking the lead out of his hand. I gave the line back to him, and tried again. The same thing happened. I grabbed the lead, told my horse to stand, told the kid to stand back, and pulled the shoes while the horse stood for me loose.

Carl

[Jim Ostergard]

This is an interesting thread. Carl, sounds like some of our past has some stuff in common. I have to really understand where I’m coming from each time a I go to hook either of the guys up. In the last few years I’ve suffered awfully from depression and whenever I took that to the barn I often had trouble. My mental state tended to overcomplicate things with old baggage. That is mostly been dealt with now but I often have to work at, “clearing,” myself before I start out.
A couple of years ago I read two books by Linda Kohanov, The Dow of Equus and Riding Betwen the Worlds. They have some great examples of how her horses reacted to the baggage folks brought to them.
Jim

[jen judkins]

@Carl Russell 14667 wrote:

It’s kind of interesting how many of us refer to the emotional growth we go through while learning to work with horses. As a culture we really don’t address individual emotional well-being. We are all sort of left out there to fend for ourselves. There are so many ways that people learn to avoid the emotional human experience, drugs, money, sex, work, etc… we just learn to avoid learning anything about how our emotions work… or how to allow ourselves to function emotionally.

Its interesting and, quite honestly, validating to hear you bring out the obvious benefits to the human who endeavors to be more horselike. Like Carl, I was an overly sensitive child and I struggled with the overwhelming emotional incongruity I felt from friends, family and those who should be my role models. Perhaps it is this innate sensitivity that allows us to appreciate our equine partners so much.

Horses are not judgemental like people tend to be. Its always felt like such an honor to be so well thought of by my horses, in spite of my obvious flaws. They appear to be nearly agendaless, except for the simple basics. So working with horses became sort of ‘safe zone’…a place where it was ok to experiment with different forms of expression..to learn about the effects of emotionality. The feedback was immediate and without judgement. You can’t fake calm and centered with a horse…you have to create it somehow and that state did not come naturally to me:rolleyes: The result was that I was not only learning to communicate with these awesome animals, but I was building a solid foundation for learning to live with my own emotions…how to use them effectively, how to control them without ignoring them, how to dissipate a powerful outburst. I’ll always have more trouble with people in this regard. The equation is just more complicated by several powers. But I continue to hope for the best…

BTW, Jim, I loved Kohanov’s books….haven’t met too many loggers who’ve read them 😉

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