Adaptability of horses and human emotions

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;14685 wrote:

Its interesting and, quite honestly, validating to hear you bring out the obvious benefits to the human who endeavors to be more horselike….

I am not taking you to task, just clarifying that for me it is not becoming more horse-like. It in fact is a true growth of the human character. I feel that through working with horses I have learned how they react to my behavior which has helped me to become a more honest, sober, and present human.

I definitely watch the way horses act and communicate, but not so that I can act like them in order that they will understand me. I believe that they already understand me regardless of how I act. The point for me is whether I am cognizant of how I am presenting myself, and whether I have a sensitivity to how that affects the relationship that I am striving for with my horses.

I respect my horses, but I see a very distinct line between human and horse. Although I have a sense of the way that horses communicate, I am more concerned with knowing how they react to the ways that I communicate. I do not believe that they are confused by my behavior if I am unclear about my intentions or lack possession of my emotions, they are just turned off.

I love being around horses because of the enterprise of working with them physically… of being physical.. with beings that can relate to that… which I find many humans to be unfamiliar with….. although I believe that it is innate to us as well.

Carl

[grey]

I think that there are a lot of ways that humans regularly and habitually (innately?) relate to one another that are counter-productive to having a good working relationship with horses. Frankly, a lot of those behaviors are counter-productive to having a good working relationship with people as well, but they exist nonetheless. It is those behaviors, methods and practices that I feel a good teamster should work on identifying and shedding.

Horses naturally communicate a certain way. We, however, often have to consciously work to achieve the same type of communication.

I’m not trying to say that this more efficient way of communicating with horses belongs solely to the horses, or that horses have cornered the market on it. It’s just that when you are striving to improve your communication with horses, you’ll have a clearer understanding of what it is you are striving for if you observe their natural inclinations.

I think those natural inclinations would be ours as well, were it not for all the “civilization” that gets in the way.

[mitchmaine]

good one grey, i think “to get what we want” people bend, stretch, and change the truth with one another all the time. so much, that we don’t even know we are doing it half the time. horses are totally honest. thats all they know. it’s good or it’s bad. eat or run away. a little simplistic, but when we use the same methods to get what we need from our animals, they don’t get it. direct commands and lots of care. they get that

[jen judkins]

@Carl Russell 14739 wrote:

I am not taking you to task, just clarifying that for me it is not becoming more horse-like. It in fact is a true growth of the human character. I feel that through working with horses I have learned how they react to my behavior which has helped me to become a more honest, sober, and present human.

I agree, Carl. That’s definately a key component to the process. But whether you acknowledge it or not, learning how communication works between you and your horses, does indeed, make you more horse like. Those who have successful partnerships with equines show many of the following qualities or abilities…

use more body language and fewer words.
use energy more efficiently (uses less, with better timing or feel)
maintains a calm, centered presence
becomes more perceptive to changes in their environment
are less prone to emotional outbursts

I have to go to work now, but those are a few examples. We’re human and not horses, obviously. But when in rome….

[Rick Alger]

Many years ago my grandparents had a horse that wouldn’t stand for harnessing and was very hard to catch. As a kid, my father used to ride this horse bareback because it ran “like the cowboy horses”.

One time Dad got swept off the horse by a tree branch about a mile from home. He was knocked out and had a broken arm. The high strung horse came back and stood while Dad wrestled himself back on.

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;14755 wrote:

I agree, Carl. That’s definitely a key component to the process. But whether you acknowledge it or not, learning how communication works between you and your horses, does indeed, make you more horse like. Those who have successful partnerships with equines show many of the following qualities or abilities…

use more body language and fewer words.
use energy more efficiently (uses less, with better timing or feel)
maintains a calm, centered presence
becomes more perceptive to changes in their environment
are less prone to emotional outbursts

I have to go to work now, but those are a few examples. We’re human and not horses, obviously. But when in rome….

I can see that these are tendencies that are more commonly seen in horses than modern civilized humans…. but absolutely disagree that these are traits that are inherently horse-like, and not human. I have been attracted to horses precisely because they have been the ones in my life who demonstrated these behaviors more freely, but I have seen this with cattle, dogs, and certain humans.

These are more animalistic tendencies, that as humans we tend to be culturalized away from, and I can see why people believe that we need to become more horse-like to demonstrate these behaviors, but that has not been my experience. When I became aware of how this was different than how I was taught to behave, or different from how I saw other humans acting, it felt like I was coming home. Like someone had shown me an old photo album, and all of a sudden I remembered how it used to be… or how it was supposed to be.

I do not use horse behavior to communicate with horses. I employ my own understanding of my innate demonstration of emotion and intention to use my innate inclinations and body language without the learned distractions of modern human behavior. In fact I now can see this on other people. I can see the tension in their neck, the way they hold their heads, the ripple in the skin on the top of their head, the posture of their shoulders, the freedom or lack thereof in their stride, etc.. All of these things are present at all times, with all animals, including humans. Body language is inherent for all animals, and even though the body parts are shaped differently, many of the demonstrations are the same.

There is no doubt that working with horses has helped me to see this, but they didn’t do it so that I could understand them, they did it so that I could understand myself.

Carl

[DraftDriver]

Alright all you strong men…don’t start laughing when I am done explaining. I grew up an only child, so many of my “friends” if you will were animals, horses in particular. The first time I met one of our neighborhood farmers, who later became close friends of our families, was when she looked out her farmhouse window to see this waif of a little girl sitting under her daughters horse in the field reading….that was me. I had no fear of them, they never hurt me, they never said cruel things, they were honest in their friendship and if you learn to read their cues and body language, you knew what they were “saying”.

My adopted dad (more of a close and beloved friend) taught me to ride when I was 10 and always said that he never worried about me when I was on a horse as I was so quiet, they listened to me and I had the hands that were quiet and easy on their mouth, I never jerked or yanked and he always told me, if your horse is acting up take a step back and evaluate the situation and what you both were doing when he did what he did, get into his mind. If your angry walk away as a horse doesn’t understand why YOU are angry.

Now, I have my team of Percherons. Smoke, my first draft mare, is very attuned to me and that mare would move mountains if I asked her to. I have been so humbled by that willingness to please, people who watch us say they can tell who is driving her, as I have let two people drive her ever since owning her and one will not touch those lines again (long story), but the other person, Bob, is much like me when he drives. He is quiet, he gives the command in a firm calm voice, never shakes or slaps the lines down on her back, and you can tell how much she loves her job. Trixie I am still getting to know but she is my steady eddy and prefers calm and quietness when putting harness on or working her, she needs a command she knows and if in a situation she doesn’t understand, looks to me.

I am humbled when I work these two together. I may not always get it right, but my life is enriched to know that these two mares, who could hurt me in a moment if they wished, listen and trust me to work with them. I have been angry and upset and as one said, they know. I think they read our body and how we hold ourselves, the tone of voice, our touch, then go from there. All my success is solely because of my two mares, not me. They make me look good because they trust me and I trust them. When I am working them, there is when peace truly comes to me…it is something that is hard to explain.

And in all honesty, I prefer Trixie and Smoke to many peoples company, as bad or rude as that sounds. I enjoy taking them out alone, trotting down the road, it is then when I am truly at peace with myself, that I feel I have done something worth while with my life.

[mitchmaine]

i thought you explained yourself pretty good.

[jen judkins]

@Rick Alger 14756 wrote:

Many years ago my grandparents had a horse that wouldn’t stand for harnessing and was very hard to catch. As a kid, my father used to ride this horse bareback because it ran “like the cowboy horses”.

One time Dad got swept off the horse by a tree branch about a mile from home. He was knocked out and had a broken arm. The high strung horse came back and stood while Dad wrestled himself back on.

Rick, one of my very first revelations with my first horse (I still own him) was a time when we were out in the Rocky Mountains. I was still a very average rider and I had draw reins on to help me control this horse (note: this was not necessary…just didn’t know better). We encountered some wildlife and things got alittle crazy. I fell off and landed in a creek. Manny hated water…would not step a foot in it if asked at the time (I’ve cured him of that since). But he stood over me in running water…shaking with fright…till I got up and managed to wade to dry land. He has always come through for me when it was necessary since…regardless of whether I have been in a position to help. Its this type of connection or loyalty…or whatever you want to call it that makes the horse special and worthy of understanding.

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