Another shoeing question…

[Brad Johnson]

To start with, I am no farrier. I am a teamster who is trying to learn to shoe my own to save the money and build relationship with my team. I have noticed that horses used for logging often have the toes of their feet blunted back with the shoes set back further than I have seen on animals used primarily for field work. Is there some reasoning to this? I have heard old timers say that “logging horses don’t need no toes”. I have begun trying to keep my length shorter, but not sure if this is a good idea or not. I am trying to match the pastern angle to the extent I can, but should the hoof wall angle be steeper than that for work in the woods? If there an advantage to trimming so short?
-Brad

[Carl Russell]

It all comes down to turning the toe into the soil for traction. They will naturally do that, but if the toe is shorter, they can set the angle of their feet easier, and I have found it to make a big difference in the horse’s confidence.

I was shown to bring the front of the shoe back to the white line. The angle at the bottom of the foot is how the angle of the pastern is controlled, but blunting the toe will not affect that, it just won’t run all the way to the tip of the toe.

In the pic below, you can see one of the off horse’s hind feet is tipped right over so that the sole of her foot is perpendicular to the angle she is pushing….. that’s the basic idea… not that a longer toe won’t let that happen, just that with the shorter toe it is easier for them.

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[j.l.holt]

if you keep cutting back the toe wall, and it gets close to the white line,you have taken all the strength away from the hoof in that area. if the horse is powerful. or really gets it on while excided, he coulod split the hoof wall and you would have a horse with to toes like a cow….then what…

[Carl Russell]

I don’t trim feet like this when barefoot, only shod. The white line runs back up away from the blunting, so the wall is really not thinned enough to critically weaken the foot. The shoe is still as wide as normal, to accommodate the heel expansion and frog. It is just he very front toe of the shoe that is pulled back to the white line…..

I was showed this method by old horse loggers over 25 years ago, and have been shoeing my horses like this since then. I have never had an issue related to the weakening of hoof wall as a result of doing this.

Not saying this is for everyone, just trying to answer the question to shed light on the reasoning….

Carl

[Donn Hewes]

Without shoes I am very careful not to overly thin the hoof wall. I work the lower 1/3 of the wall with every trimming to set the toe back, and remove flares from the sides. Along with a good round over this maintains a tight compact shape, and helps the bare foot horse with the same break over Carl describes for the shod horse. In most cases I revisit the hoof wall, flaring, and round over; once between regular trimming. Donn

[Jeroen]

To accomodate your toe clip you file back until the white line if you want to place your shoe further back. Make sure you leave some room behind the lip to avoid concussions. The same applies for the hoof wall: file it straight, not only the lower part. If you are not that experienced I recommend concentrating on the proper shaping of the shoe (hot of course), proper trimming and less on manipulating, because this is can be too tricky for the novice.

[dominiquer60]

Taking the toe back on performances horses for a flat knee gait or for taking off over a jump is common practice. For shoeing purposes, I would lump logging horses in with performances horses of this type, horses that you want to have an easy time of rolling over at the toe so that their gait comes easy to them and the work that they are performing has less of a negative impact on tendons and ligaments. In contrast show horses that are looking for an animated gait (think hitch horses and Saddlebreds) will have a longer toe and foot, and will often use pads to extend the length of the foot.

I included this link to show what the toe looks like of a shod equine that has had its toes taken back repeatedly. http://i4.newhorse.com/dynamic/photos-category/farrier-photos-section-2009/markmartin40aolcom/2001.ce881a8fimage.jpg

[Brad Johnson]

I really appreciate all the helpful responses here. I think I am on the right track with short toe when shod. This kind of information given freely here on the forum is so helpful, and this is the kind of exchange that makes the forum valuable to those working with animals!
-Brad

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