Apollo, a work in progress

[CharlyBonifaz]

” No pressure driving
Here is an alternative you may consider. Actually, all the advice above is good and will work with sufficient time and understanding (I don’t mean compassion, I mean accurately reading what is going on). I train and drive all my horses and mules with a method I call “no pressure” driving. That means when they are walking in the direction I want to go at the speed I want to go there will be no pressure on the bit. So what is the difference? I try to never return their pressure on the bit with pressure of my own; ie. “hold them back”. Instead when I ask them to go I expect them to walk, when one takes a step out of line I correct it with a non verbal command vie the lines. Tap, tap, tap, you are supposed to be walking here. If they don’t “hear” this I do it a little louder, again with the lines. They will learn to walk, and pull things with out any pressure on the bit. You have to train yourself to release all pressure at every opportunity to give them the chance to do it right. A trick I play on myself to make sure I am releasing them quickly and consistently is to translate every bump on the lines to words. For example, slow, left, right, come back, pay attention now. I can give those commands as fast as I can say them and I should be releasing just as quickly. Don’t make the mistake of thinking I am driving around without contact on my animals. Contact is extremely important to encouraging and developing a young team. I just don’t want pressure. For a young team I might have a constant chatter of signals going up the lines, but I want to know what each one is, like whispering in their ear. I have used this method with mules that were pulling hard on the lines with great effect. Any method you choose will require patience and time. Good luck. Donn”
just a quote of what comes up on the link…..

[OldKat]

After a telephone conversation with Donn I started working on this with my mares before I destroyed my back last year & I can say it was working. Then after totally screwing up my spine I couldn’t harness them for nearly 11 months and when I did they were responding to this method by the second day. I thought I was going to get a lot of push back from them, but I really didn’t. I am off tomorrow and I can’t wait to hitch up.

[Joshua Kingsley]

If this horse is what you really want to use for breeding and has the right stuff I would hesitate to geld him. Think that he may just be high energy like any stud that I have owned and you may find that more work instead of the lighter loads you are doing may have a more tireing effect. You have been working this horse so he is in better shape and is testing you to see what he can get away with from what I am reading.
So far he has gotten you three times with his size over you and now I think he has the mindset that he dosent have to do anything unless he wants to. Studs are smart and will usually figure things out quick and are going to take advantage if they know that you will go back to light work instead of what they are doing, that means you are playing into his game by backing down. I would wait on cutting him untill I worked the sweat right out of him for a week straight. If he didn’t settle down cut him, sell him and find another or what ever your heart desires. You should have it figured out at the end of a liong hard week of work for him. He will either be calmer and working well or be headed to a different type of life. I also would consider the amout of added grains, or feeds you are feeding. My stud would be a nut case on added feed. He had enough get up and go with out a lot of added energy.

Best of luck and be safe.
Joshua

[cousin jack]

Thanks for all of the replies above. I cut my teeth as it were, on riding hard pulling horses who were fed up to the eyeballs and would run away with you at the drop of hat, I know how to drop my hands. And I do not put pressure on horses when it is not needed. Yesterdays incident came when we could not have been more relaxed.
I think Joshua has hit the nail on the head, a stallion, a smart one, one that is getting stronger by the day, one that is not getting enough work, one that has learnt that he can get the top side of me simply by running off.
Work is good at the moment and I do not have the time to give him other than in short periods, and yes all of these incidents have happened with light loads, (yesterdays, none at all), and I also think he has been waiting for an excuse to bolt rather than it being fear alone. I have not given up yet, I do have a plan, I have given you this, “warts and all” and I will let you know how I get on in the future. All the best CJ

[Donn Hewes]

Wish I could add more suggestions but it sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what is going on already. Unfortunately some times it takes more time and energy than we have. Here are a couple thoughts on “no pressure driving”. Not my invention by any means; I just like to use it, and talk about it. One of it’s advantages is how it will allow for a levered bit with a curb chain. If you avoid any pressure on the lines except what is a signal or command, the bit is not being harsh to the animal. In a sense we have just made the commands loud enough for him to hear them. I will attach the article I wrote about how and why I use no pressure driving.

[cousin jack]

Donn, thank you for that.

[cousin jack]

A week has gone by, I can tell you that I still have him, and everything is still “intact”.
When I look back over some of my posts, I talk about winning, I now realise how foolish I was to write that, and I also realise that I can never win, what I am looking for is a honourable draw or tie. Something like the hardest game of rugby/football you have ever played, at the end of the game the scores are even but you shake hands with your opponents, having the utmost respect for them, and they for you.
This last week, I have worked Apollo hard, he AND I have lost a fair amount of sweat over the last few days, I am happy to report that we have had no further incidents, there have been moments when the opportunity was there, but being tired as he was, he declined the opportunities to dance.
I am sure that many of you were saying silently to your pc’s more work boy, give him more work, well work is THE key to this lad and probably just about every horse out there, will let you no more in the future.
One thing he does do now, he stands really well, he has learnt that it means a rest, and he is ready to take it when it comes.

[Joshua Kingsley]

That is truly great to hear. I was hoping that you would decide to go this route before you made any rash decision. Best of luck for continued sucess with this great horse.
Joshua

[cousin jack]

Apollo is still in the good books, and even though he was working well I have still gone back to the round pen on a daily basis, the emphasis being on Whoa! I am asking him to understand that if he stops, whatever it is that is happening, that he dos’nt like, will stop too!

First of all I do it with him harnessed and loose, then with the reins, I make all sorts of things happen, from gunshots to air horns, we have all sorts of obstacles from tyres to plastic drums, he is coping with them all, he does not like things hitting him from behind but he stops on my asking and I remove the offending article.We have taken some good steps forward.
We have had him in loose shafts out of the pen and up the road, not had a wheeled vehicle behind him yet, but should be soon, anyway I’ll keep you posted, CJ

[cousin jack]

Touch wood, everything is still going well, hav’nt done too much in the last week, but had him in fixed shafts this morning, no problems.

[Joshua Kingsley]

That is great news. I am glad that you have continued to be sucessful on working through the issues with him. best of luck. Joshua

[cousin jack]

@Joshua Kingsley 19523 wrote:

That is great news. I am glad that you have continued to be sucessful on working through the issues with him. best of luck. Joshua

Thank you Joshua, hope you are on the mend 🙂

[mitchmaine]

good news with your horse. its great following this thread, too. glad you did it.
sometimes its just outlasting them. your persistance must be paying off.

mitch

[cousin jack]

Mitch, believe me, there was times when I did’nt think we was going to make it, (I still hav’nt yet), but we’re getting there. But, I was very close to blowing it, simply due to lack of thought and complacency on my part.

[cousin jack]

Things are still going well, we now have him in the skid cart/arch, empty at first, but I have been up into the woods this morning, pulling timber out, with him.
All went well, did a couple of hours before the flies and mosquitoes, (which are evil in this wood), got too bad. He has got very good at standing still now, despite the flies, and this morning after unhooking a log, and being very particular about where I left the reins, together and very handy, I was able to roll logs onto the deck, without him looking to move off. Just need to get him in the forwarder with Hermes now, I am hoping this will be straightforward enough and should be the icing on the cake.

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