backwoods radicals

[Carl Russell]

I realize that Mitch was just making a bit of social commentary when he referred to RV as “Radical”. And I also appreciate all of the truly radical work that Michael has done over the years.

The truth is that RV has never presented itself as a “Radical” organization. We have always been an agricultural advocacy group. As such we are a mass of many perspectives, some passive, some radical. There have been times when RV promoted more demonstrations such as milk dumping in the 1980’s, although to some that is hardly radical enough, and to others it is pointless.

My point is that even though RV may not be able to be as radical as some might think important, many of the members, and a majority of the current board (Will Allen is no longer on it:() are actually actively breaking laws that govern food production. Some more publicly than others.

Many of us also see radicalism as more than protest. We support a vision of agriculture that is, or has been, far enough outside of the normal that it is radical, and to pull it off will be a radical act.

With this latest initiative, there are some members of RV who are ready to tell VAA to shove it, but wouldn’t you know they haven’t tried to shut us down. Hmmmm? Lisa is holding a cheese class next week, advertised for more than a month now, she has no intention of canceling it, and she has not been approached by VAA.

As an advocacy group, supported by paying members and granting organizations, RV must take appraisal of how to make our efforts public with the greatest effect. Telling VAA to shove it would have kept them in the driver’s seat. Choosing to play victim, taking away the opportunity for people to get what they want (learning to use raw food products at home through RV cheese classes), was an agreed upon strategy to highlight how foolish and oppressive VAA is.

One of the things we are exploring is how to publicize acts of civil disobedience in a way that brings out the dogs before the act, so that we actually don’t have to put people in a situation where they risk their personal financial and physical assets.

As much as I admire those, like Mike, who put themselves in situation to highlight absurdities by being arrested, it is much different when you are breaking the law on your own property, using the basis for your livelihood as the foundation for that act. RV nor the farmers have the necessary resources to stand a legal battle (at this time). We realize that is the old standby weaponry used by agency bureaucrats, and we need to find ways to compete against it without risking personal assets, or burying the organization in legal debt.

Our current ED is an attorney with a lifetime experience in civil disobedience, and professional experience challenging public policy. I am very hopeful that RV will engage in some important battles during the next few years. We may not be getting people arrested, but we will be advancing a radical change in our current food system.

😀 Carl

[near horse]

Any thoughts about trying to involve similar orgs in other states? Not sure if there are many places like VT in terms of small organized farmers but I do know there are the same issues RE: raw milk, on farm slaughter etc

I’m pretty green when it comes to raising cain w/ a purpose. Most of my experience was doing it for no good reason:eek: But, with the recent megaload fight here, I’ve learned and seen some things.

1) try to keep the issue in the news to keep public exposed – get interested folks to write letters to the editor of various newspapers. And keep at it.

2) have some type of public informational meeting perhaps a “your right to choose” theme (as much to call attention – “local TV news “is looking for stuff like this).

3) you can stage some sort of “symbolic protest” – make sure you let the media know ahead of time. EX – the head of ID transportation was quoted saying those in opposition to the megaloads were a bunch of “nuts”. Over the course of the week his office received boxes and boxes of peanuts from the so called “nuts”. Not much but makes a point and keeps your cause at the top of the list.

I probably haven’t said anything you all haven’t thought of already – you are in the VT where all dissent originates! What about your neighbors next door – “Live free or die!” We’re just trying to live free and regulations are killing us.

Best of luck and expand the fight!!

[J-L]

As much as I admire anyone who stands up for what they believe in, when you start advertising yourselves as the radical, civil disobedient, advocacy group from the backwoods of whatever state, you are going to turn off a fair amount of people in my oppinion. Not everyone is a hippy worshipper.
I agree with the root of your cause, and I suspect most people would, if they hear it put forward in a manner that’s more palatable.
Chaining your naked body to your milk barn doors might not be the best way.;)
Just an oppinion from someone who’s a little more on the conservative side.

[goodcompanion]

@J-L 25109 wrote:

As much as I admire anyone who stands up for what they believe in, when you start advertising yourselves as the radical, civil disobedient, advocacy group from the backwoods of whatever state, you are going to turn off a fair amount of people in my oppinion. Not everyone is a hippy worshipper.
I agree with the root of your cause, and I suspect most people would, if they hear it put forward in a manner that’s more palatable.
Chaining your naked body to your milk barn doors might not be the best way.;)
Just an oppinion from someone who’s a little more on the conservative side.

I don’t find that Rural VT puts itself forward this way. The work is simply good and needed and as such seems to attract the support of the broad range of the public as you mention. Both neo-hippies and old guard vermonters have room under this banner. I like to think that DAP is kinda similar in that regard.

[blue80]

I guess I have a problem with the radical people who surge forward out of anger.
And I have a problem with the well meaning truth seeking folks who will not get involved because of fear of repercussions.
Mostly I respect the ones involved in civil disobedience who are doing it out of hope for the future. Not a “kumbya we are the world” type of endeavour, though I like singalongs:D rather seeing a need to promote truth and justice for the greater good.

I have a dad who defended homeopathy by refinancing his property and spent $250k proving that homeopathy works. Now its taught in Canadian veterinary circles , though they successfully took away his license to do medicine because he kept poor records of drug inventory…..Good job dad, please don’t be bitter….
I have family who have been jailed and one person killed over oil ecoterrorism. I don’t know the circumstances or all the reasons, but when kids and animals start having adverse health problems and nobody will act, maybe I wouldn’t be so quick to condemn them ??
I was sued by a well known home improvement store 4 yrs. ago in a completely frivolous trademark infringement lawsuit. They wanted my corporate name, told me they were an 80 billion dollar company and they would get it.They insisted I accept blame, in writing, which we decided in good conscience we couldn’t do… If I didn’t defend my self, the law would have given them everything but $6k. So tens of thousands of dollars later, they dropped the charges I gave them my business name and on with our lives….

What I’m trying to say is that there are battles to be fought in life, by some, it is important not to judge others decisions. I think it is very important to remain hopeful for the future, and for myself, today, what I can do is mostly shut up and work, and lead by the best example I can. And have good answers ready when people ask.

Somehow hopefully the important action describe in this thread can be done so that those involved don’t regret their actions. So proper planning and vision is important to proceed, sounds like some of that is being done by the “backwoods radicals” at RV, and heres hoping it continues in the future.

Heres to wisdom for all, and
PEACE from this non hippy radical (I’m radical cause I quit watching tv and today I spent 8 hrs. with my horses and fresno scraping snow that would have melted…and I hope it snows again:eek:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZffCe6dhL1U

Kevin

[Does’ Leap]

Like all of you, I fully support RV sponsoring these classes. It makes me crazy that the Agency of Ag is dedicating resources to this issue. One flip side to this issue that many licensed cheesemakers are concerned with illegal sales of cheese by home cheesemakers. Some in the VT cheese community (read: rumor) hypothesize that D Scruton is taking this stand (at least in part) to protect VT cheesemakers. The concern is that a home cheesemakers sells cheese that makes someone sick and that it reflects poorly on the whole cheese “industry” (of which we happen to be a part). This might seem paranoid, but it is a reality. I know of 4 familys/farms personally (that we taught to make cheese BTW) that are selling cheese and not only to friends, but at Farmer’s Market and to restaurants. I would gladly eat all of the cheese produced by these folks, but given the environment in which they are made (home kitchens which get trafficed by barn boots, etc) I do not advocate them selling it. We have battled the Agency of Ag (all the way to the legislature) on a handful of inane regs we have to follow, but the vast majority of those regs make sense for a safe product.

The health issue also bridges over to raw milk. Again, I am a firm supporter of unlimited raw milk sales by farms. With minimum sanitation, I think it is relatively easy to get clean milk when hand milking cows and goats provided you can cool your milk relatively quickly. Machine milking is a different story though. I know of one producer who uses a bucket milker that doesn’t have hot water in his milk room. He rinses with cold water after every milking and every couple of days he brings his equipment up to his house and runs boiling water through it. I am all about caveat emptor, but I am not sure the average consumer knows what questions to ask.

Does this concern equate to my supporting Agency of Ag’s stance on these classes – again, no way. As a member of RV, I would encourge the board to address the issue (I am refering to cheese sales) in some way. Kristan has done a couple of cheesemaking classes at our school to raise money for 4-H and she will continue to do so if there is a demand.

George

[Michael Colby]

As usual, Carl, you put forward a very thoughtful response and I thank you for it. It was especially important to me to get the “behind the scenes” thinking on the strategies being considered. Most of us are not in the Rural Vermont loop of decision making and, thus, the media-filtered news we received about this was, of course, oversimplified (State tells RV to jump, RV says, “how high?”).

I hope you will continue to keep DAP folks informed about this critical issue — especially when any calls to action are issued.

[mitchmaine]

Failure is not an option. Can’t remember if that was a football coach or a nasa scientist coined that phrase, but we should have run him outta town for that.
Two generations of kids have grown up with that motto, trouble is when failure isn’t an option neither is success. Risk is out, too and all you get is mediocrity.
Remember the films of those old guys jumping off barns with wings strapped to themselves, falling in a heap at the bottom. They didn’t know failure wasn’t an option. And it was on their mountain of debris of failed flight attempts that the wrigtht brothers jumped off that day they taught us all to fly.
Leave it all to dep and usda. Trained officials looking out for our wellbeing, who grew up fearing to fail, putting their names in the upper left hand corner, never raising their hands and rubberstamping everything, so they could get a check, go home and shop online.
Meanwhile some kid wants to know how to make butter. His parents would show him but they’d break the law.
We should have a special award for failures. Whether they lead to success or not. And curiosity, too. The nosey, hyper crazy kids in my classroom would all pass with flying colors.

[near horse]

@J-L 25109 wrote:

As much as I admire anyone who stands up for what they believe in, when you start advertising yourselves as the radical, civil disobedient, advocacy group from the backwoods of whatever state, you are going to turn off a fair amount of people in my oppinion. Not everyone is a hippy worshipper.
I agree with the root of your cause, and I suspect most people would, if they hear it put forward in a manner that’s more palatable.
Chaining your naked body to your milk barn doors might not be the best way.;)
Just an oppinion from someone who’s a little more on the conservative side.

J-L

I understand your point but I think that you like many others have associated the term “radical” with the term “hippie”. Back in the 30’s or so, the current dairymen were “radicals” and boycotted low milk prices by dumping their milk – not hippies though. Radicals have existed for centuries – heck, Jesus was a radical in his time.

The point is the average Joe doesn’t pay much attention to anything unless it’s hammered to them in the media AND the media isn’t going to come report what it considers to be a story of limited “saleable” interest – so they need a naked guy chained to the milk house door (or worse yet, the dairyman the killed himself mentioned on this site a year or so ago). Civil disobedience is the about the only tool in the shed you have to bring in the forces of public opinion – they can’t respond to what they don’t know about. The working history of this country is built around working class folks demanding better for themselves and only getting it through acts of civil disobedience – ask coal miners, textile workers etc How didi those folks bring about change in Egypt, Tunisia etc – not by following the law and dispersing and they sure aren’t hippies. So, sure, sometimes it’s unpalatable but you tell me, what’s your farm livelihood worth to you?

Kristan,

Those arguments you put forth about what bad press will do to the industry are the very scare tactics being put forth against raw milk, home slaughter of beef, pork, lamb, poultry etc. Yet the facts tell a very different story in which the worst press for industrial ag has come because of its own shortcomings – how many meat recalls (in the millions of pounds) do we have to have to recognize that the folks clamoring against the small producer claiming concerns about safety and sanitation ARE the very groups that are responsible for the recalled product. Those practices are convincing folks that other smaller producers are the way to go. But industry is unwilling to accept the results of their production model (reduced sales) AND is unwilling to change. So, take away the alternative market and gain the market share back. I’d just be careful about who I threw in with, if you know what I mean. I doubt they’re concerned about your best interest. PS – I hope this isn’t about cheese market saturation in VT where small producers start fighting with each other. Then we’re done for – get ready for more Velveeta processed cheese food.

[J-L]

You make some good points Geoff. It just seems that a lot of people get caught up in activism just to say they are an ‘activist’. Not saying that’s the case here.
One term I really don’t think is that attractive is ‘ecoterrorist’. If you ask most folks in my world that is a term that will turn them off without hearing more.

[near horse]

Hi Wes,

I totally agree and understand where you’re coming from. It’s a fine line between getting public attention for one’s message and turning them off before the message is even heard. Guess that’s why the big dogs have PR departments or even hire it out. I think it gets harder as people’s lives get wrapped around so much other stuff that they can devote one ear for 30 seconds and then zoom – they’re off to something else.

Yep, ecoterrorist is a shocker for most people.

Chaining your naked body to the milkhouse door is best reserved for summer activists!

[J-L]

Too true. It is an uphill battle for smaller interests vs. the huge corporations (or the popular press).
I sure wouldn’t be chained naked to the milkbarn door for a few more months here either. Cold and windy today.

[jac]

Its annoying that any small group who stands up for something good gets branded with some kind of title.. “eco warrior” or “tree hugger” and “eco terrorist” is the worst ever.. the word terrorist is a negative no matter how its used. Nobody calls someone who believes a pipeline is a good thing “pipeline lover” ? Over here we had a spell when some folks went around calling the bomber crews of WW2 terrorists {both Lancaster and B17}. well the British people… I mean the people that has their heart in the country… showed them what they thought of that crap… they built a statue to Bomber Harris.. the leader of bomber command in WW2.:D..
John

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