bare foot oxen

[jac]

I have mentioned “barefoot” trims for horses on another thread. One of the things you notice with pasture kept horses is the way the foot changes angle after the 1st 3/4 inch below the hairline. This is the angle nature tries to grow the hoof at but our domestication changes this to a more flatter angle which the “barefoot” trim corrects.. My question is.. do oxen that are used on a variety of surfaces develope different feet to the pasture kept animal. Would adopting a “barefoot trim” be of benefit to oxen rather than shoeing?? I ask because I was looking at the neighbours dairy cows over the gate and I noticed the change in angle on the hoofs the same as with the horse.
John

[dlskidmore]

I was wondering the same thing when reading the barefoot horse discussion. You still have to throw the ox down to do a trim, not just shoeing?

[CharlyBonifaz]

Would adopting a “barefoot trim” be of benefit to oxen rather than shoeing??

One might get the idea; reason: when we shod mine for the first time the angle changed, the hoofsmith said it was exactly what he would expect in a horse; without shoes the angle grows out again….

You still have to throw the ox down to do a trim, not just shoeing?

neither if you teach him to pick up his feet……:D

[dlskidmore]

Now I have to figure out where I read about ox shoeing. The author of that piece seemed to think it anatomically impossible to shoe an ox while it was standing. I occasionally have had to throw a dog over, and I absolutely hate doing it. I’m concerned that injuries could occur, or that it will engender distrust of the handler. I’d much rather train the animal to position itself conveniently.

[dlskidmore]

Not the story I read before, but pertinent to the discussion:

Working Oxen By Martin Watts, Ox Shoes chapter

[CharlyBonifaz]

The author of that piece seemed to think it anatomically impossible to shoe an ox while it was standing.

not a problem, if trained as in a horse

another method to throw them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx0UgmN9dv8&NR=1

[mitchmaine]

lots of local barns and now museums feature cattle stocks for shoeing. they differed from horses in size and shape. one difference being the rear legs were drawn straight back and lashed to a pole.some were on hinges and swung in after the steer was in the headgate. some horses were shod in stocks where all steers and oxen were. the anatomicalproblem might have been with the farrier being able to hold the steer and work at the same time. first time i ever saw a dairy cow thrown on a hydrualic table for trimming was about thirty years ago. that was slick. did 40 cows in about four hours with a 9″ grinder.

[Vicki]

Most mature cattle cannot/will not balance on three legs, so they end up leaning their weight on the trimmer or shoer, which makes it nearly impossible to do. Stocks that support the weight of the cattle with belly bands were common when oxen were common. Casting cattle was also done. Today, stocks with belly bands or tilt table chutes are the way to go.
Even if the cattle are trained to let you pick up and examine the feet, they usually will not stand with a foot up for very long.
I don’t know what a barefoot trim on a horse is.
I know that the conformation of the individual cattle does influence hoof growth and angle. Cattle with naturally high heels and steep angle of hoof will need less trim than cattle that naturally lay back more on the heels, and that is one factor you will want to look at in cattle you select for work.
Of course, how much abrasion the cattle encounter in their environment affects hoof angle too.

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Mine isn’t shod, but does pick his feet up. I’ve never trimmed his feet. I notice that our suckler cows, who rarely get trimmed, have wide, flat feet – I think this reduces poaching on the land and is generally a good thing. I went to see the Chillingham ‘wild’ cattle recently and they had the same feet.

[jac]

This is interesting as what you are describing is the opposite to what I would want in a horse..flares are my worst enemy but I can totally understand the reduction of poaching aspect. For my Clydes to succeed with a bare foot trim I need to keep the toe backed up and the heels dropped with no flaring of the quarters. Its interesting the wild cattle put on a wide foot. I wonder if they were roaming over differing surfaces if the foot would tighten up ??..good to hear you again Ixy..
John

[OldKat]

@jac 19020 wrote:

This is interesting as what you are describing is the opposite to what I would want in a horse..flares are my worst enemy but I can totally understand the reduction of poaching aspect. For my Clydes to succeed with a bare foot trim I need to keep the toe backed up and the heels dropped with no flaring of the quarters. Its interesting the wild cattle put on a wide foot. I wonder if they were roaming over differing surfaces if the foot would tighten up ??..good to hear you again Ixy..
John

Just curious, why do you say this?

[jac]

OldKat the type of trim Im doing now is whats called a barefoot trim. Different from the pasure trim normally done over here. When the hoof flares there is pressure put on the hoof wall and this can lead to white line stretching. The wild horses that can roam over different surfaces wear their feet to a shape that doesnt split and is as hard as stone. This type of trim is what we try to copy and the quarter flares are the first split. Our Clydes put on a heck of hoof growth when they hit the grass so Im on the rasp every 10 days if they arnt doing any road work. If you look at the 1st inch of hoof below the hairline this is the angle that nature is trying to grow the foot at..We tend to alter this to suit our own ideas of what is right. I now believe we would be better copying nature..
John

[mathuranatha]

We used to use strap on shoes when working on the paved or gravel roads every day .Even the most stubborn and dumb bullocks eventually learn to lift their feet if given the option before being thrown every morning to strap their shoes on .They can learn to balance on 3 legs for a short while any way while a shoe is strapped on .

And yes their toes can get really long and thin and pointy on soft grass and need trimming or working on a hard surface .

The nail on shoes they use in India dont seem to last log at all working on the road every day. But as there are “narlies” every where [or used to be] they just replace the half shoe that comes adrift .After seeing them replacing nails , shoes etc on a pair of bullocks sometimes every couple of days it made our strap on shoes seem not so inconvenient after all.2 bullocks = 16 half shoes , one always seems to be coming loose .Especially the small hoofs and thin side walls of some of the smaller Indian bullocks .

— mat — 🙂

[Nat(wasIxy)]

oh my goodness tell me about these strap on shoes (pictures would be most excellent) I assumed if I did a lot of roadwork I’d need to use the stick on block boot things for dairy cows!

I don’t think the long flat feet our cows have would be good roads, but we don’t get the chance to test it here! I think it would do Angus’ feet good though, his seem to be the only ones that chip off at the toe – maybe because he’s half simmi, and they have good draught heritage and feet better suited to roads?

[mathuranatha]

@Ixy 19813 wrote:

oh my goodness tell me about these strap on shoes (pictures would be most excellent) I assumed if I did a lot of roadwork I’d need to use the stick on block boot things for dairy cows!

I don’t think the long flat feet our cows have would be good roads, but we don’t get the chance to test it here! I think it would do Angus’ feet good though, his seem to be the only ones that chip off at the toe – maybe because he’s half simmi, and they have good draught heritage and feet better suited to roads?

CharlyBonifan asked me about them a few months ago and I posted some pics ,ill try and copy the post and paste below :-

Teaming up mature oxen 03-01-2008, 05:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlyBonifaz
mathuranatha,
been trying to reach you a long while ago
need to know how you fix the rubber/tire-shoes on the oxen….if this doesn’t fit here, may be you want to use pm? thanks in advance

03-17-2010, 11:59 AM
mathuranatha
Junior Member

I gave up on the rubber tyre shoes after a coupler of years and made them out of all steel.Not quite as much grip as the rubber but much more durable and easy to maintain.Sort of like steel sandals with one loop at the front and 2 loops at the back and a leather strap that went around their ankle.We used to strap them on each morning and take them off at night .As they would wear down we would just weld new bars across the bottom.Did thousands of kilometres on the bitumen roads during the 90,s but havent put one on a bullock in probably 10 years .Anyway I’ll find one of the shoes and take a pic.There is one 20+year old bullock left who used to wear the shoes . I might be able to put a shoe on him but I think all the leather straps are totally deteriorated.I definitely want to get a young calf and get out on the road again .I bult a new light weight cart 3or 4 years ago with an axle that winds forwards and backwards to keep the balance neutral for hills.Still havent tried it yet .My email is mathuranathadas108@gmail.com — remind me if I dont get around to posting some pic as I have about 10 life times of things that need doing and lots of half finished projects on our community farm.
—- thanks mat—

another pic , can post more if required-mat-

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ok looks like it might not have copyed the attachments but you can go to the original thread and see them , and also there was a similar thread a couple of years ago .There were 3 pics posted 17and 19 /3/2010

hope that helps –Mat –[IMG][IMG][IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9445121@N05/4439982424/[/IMG]

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