Bits

[J-L]

I switched out one of my team today. The nylon tugs have worn the hair off pretty bad along her ribs. She’s been working every day for 3 months anyway.
She’s been using the little cheap ring snaffle that came with the harness and didn’t seem to mind it. The horse using it now, roots the bit and shakes his head quite a little when we were choring this morning. He’s a saddle horse that usually is very quiet.
I went through the harness thinking it was a problem there. Everything seemed fine. On a whim I switched the cheap driving bit out for a nice D ring snaffle made by Dutton. All problems ceased and we finished out the work day.
Normally I use the old bits we’ve had on the ranch for a long, long time. Some are handmade by the old blacksmith shop in Fort Bridger. They were decent bits that most horses liked. The bit in question is a new chromed thing made in China, and just happened to be on the new bridle so I used it without much thought.
If you look closely at it there are big differences. The joints aren’t smooth, the contour of either side is a little straight. And the rings themselves have some small burrs where it was welded. None of these are nasty or sharp, just noticeable.
Apparently the mule didn’t care as much as the horse. I’ll give her a week or ten days and put her back to work with the good bit and see if I can find any difference with her.
I just wondered if anyone else has experienced this?

[OldKat]

Yes, I have. With saddle horses anyway. I learned, kinda like you have discovered, that cheap, poorly constructed bits can annoy some horses mouth so much that they didn’t want to pay attention to what I wanted them to do. You were smart to observe this.

I once came by a a bunch of aluminum bits that someone was getting rid of. Thought I had hit the jackpot until I found that they dried out my horses mouths so much that they couldn’t even make saliva! I threw the whole bunch of them away.

[Rod]

How do I tell a good bit from a poor one other than by price, especially when ordering by catalog. Also is the broken snaffle the mildest one. I have a problem with both my horses when stopped. They are constantly throwing their heads around and rubbing them against each other. The broken snaffle bits I an using came with the horses and I wonder if what you describe might be the problem?

[Iron Rose]

Most off the old bits as well a few of the new higher priced bits are made of what was called sweet iron. The person that thought me to shoe horses was also an excellent blacksmith. He made spurs, bits,and anything else that you needed. For the mouth pieces he used steel that was weathered(from old rusty machinery) to which he would inlay copper. He always said that stainless and chrome did nothing for the horse just for the owner.

[near horse]

have a problem with both my horses when stopped. They are constantly throwing their heads around and rubbing them against each other. The broken snaffle bits I an using came with the horses and I wonder if what you describe might be the problem?

I have this same problem w/ my team and I kept checking and rechecking the bit adjustment (was it too tight:confused:) but can’t really notice anything. I do use overcheck reins but don’t really know how to evaluate whether that’s the problem. To confound things, one of the horses always hangs his tongue out while we’re working. Previous owner said, “oh he just does that.” They still get about their work fine but I certainly want to make it as comfortable as possible to do what I’m asking of them. Does this seem like a cheap bit problem?

[sanhestar]

Rod,

in fact, a single broken bit can be sharper that an unbroken one.

I hope I can explain it good enough:

when you pull on a broken bit, the bit will come together, the broken middle acting like a joint. This can cause the tongue to get squeezed (sometimes very uncomfortably) or even the lower jaw. The upright middle section can poke into the palate, as well.

But with them constantly rubbing their heads it could also be something with the leather or the snaps – kind of an allergic itching, maybe reacting with the sweat when they are working.

The bit could be too small and squeeze the corners of the mouth or have developed sharp edges where the rings are attached (or somewhere else on the bits).

@near horse: tongue out is a sign or symptom for too hart, sharp use of the bit (in the past?). Maybe there has been a time where this horse actually suffered an injury of the tongue or has problems with his teeth (have you checked them). He’s trying to relieve the pressure of the bit on the tongue. Maybe the bit doesn’t fit or he has other problems (I’ve heard that horses with back pains can show this tongue out/tongue over the bit).

The bit could be sitting too low in his mouth, too.

As a first step I would have a vet who has experience with tooth problems in horses examine his mouth, teeth and tongue.

Finding a bit that fits the horse is almost like finding good fitting shoes. I liked to pick the bits in stores or at fairs where a could feel them (this wouldn’t prevent that I picked a wrong one occasionaly..)

Sabine

Sabine

[CIW]

I’ve been building bits now for about 20 years. Some of what taught me was information and patterns from the very blacksmith that made the bits that J-L has at the ranch.
There are ways to relieve the pressure that is causing the horse to throw his head. It makes the weight of the bit rest on the lip instead of the jaw and also reduces the amount of pinch on the tongue.
Some of the bit designs have been made with no reward in them. No release. Thats where some of these odd habits come into play.
Also loosening the bit down a notch will make the horse pick the bit up and hold it. Head throwing is a symptom of a horse that was never taught to hold a bit or is getting no reward or relief.
More often a horse that hangs its tongue out is due to irritation on the tongues surface causing it to go numb. He’s just solving the problem by hanging it out the side of his mouth. Getting away from the pressure.
There’s a misconseption about the inate power of a snaffle mouthed bit. It is the most severe bit that can be put in the mouth to exert lateral pressure, (To make the horse give to the side.) and if not used gentle enough can cause callusing. That will then render the bit nearly useless.
Its kind of like going down the road with your foot on the brake pedal. It eventually just wears the brakes out.
There are so many different ways that pressure can be applied to an animal that changing bits may not need to be going to a more severe bit, but one that applies a different kind of pressure, that works better with that particular animal or teaching of a certain command.
Another thing that will alter the way an animal reacts to a bit is the angle of pull from the drive lines or reins.
These are some of the things that aren’t taught to todays horsemen. We are several generations away from those who knew the information about building an animals mouth.

[Rod]

Good replys but but not specifice enough. Should I try a stright bit? or any other suggestions. Most of the bits I find in my Meaders catalog are of the broken (jointed ) type. Any suggestions. I would love to solve this head throwing problem and if it’s the bit will try a diffrent style and quality.

[jen judkins]

Rod, I think there is alot of useful information in CIW and Sanhestar’s posts. You might want to re-read;).

I’ve studied bits with alot of interest…as an ear nose and throat (people) specialist, I am fascinated with the way bits make contact, create pressure (for good and bad) and otherwise affect the sensitive tissues of the tongue, jaw, lips and palate. I’ve even been known to put a few in my own mouth….mostly ouch!

But I think every horse, mule and donkey needs to be evaluated individually. I mostly use a high quality single jointed snaffle for most of my riding horses, but I also spend alot of time keeping them soft, so I rarely need to put enough pressure in the lines to cause discomfort. Some horses will have a shallow palate and event the lightest of pressure will cause pain (from the joint). Others have bigger tongues (like many people) and suffer with pinching. So…if the single jointed snaffle is not working for one of your horses, I would go to either a straight bit (consider something with a curb like a liverpool, if you think control might be an issue) or a double jointed (french link) snaffle. There are other options (mylar has an obscene number of alternative bits, most quite expensive) and an equine dentist might be able to help you evaluate your horse’s mouth, but these are two relatively inexpensive bits to try.

I’m using a jointed liverpool for Peanut right now and all seems to be going well, but I would switch to a straight unjointed bit if I thought he was having trouble with the jointed bit.

One last point, to expand on Sabines point… I was taught by a great horseman to start a horse with the bit set low in the mouth, until he learned to pick it up and hold it. As a training tool, I think this is important (at least with saddle horses…I assume the same would hold true for a driving horse), so that the bit is introduced and accepted by the horse, before it is actually used in any significant way. Then it can be raised to a more constructive place in the mouth. I have been suspicious that many chronic head tossers had a bit shoved in their mouths without any ‘foreplay’ so to speak:eek: when they were young.

Peanut was so mouthy as a yearling that I put a bridle on him while I was doing chores in the evening. I set it low so he could play with it. It was like a pacifier for a baby. He would stand in one spot, working that bit for a half an hour. I would take it out as I finished my chores and he would follow me to the barn gate looking for more. I’ve actually never ridden him with a bit yet (only 3 rides on him…all in a hackamore), but I suspect the bit will be a non issue…as it has been with his driving training.

[OldKat]

@Rod 5725 wrote:

Good replys but but not specifice enough. Should I try a stright bit? or any other suggestions. Most of the bits I find in my Meaders catalog are of the broken (jointed ) type. Any suggestions. I would love to solve this head throwing problem and if it’s the bit will try a diffrent style and quality.

I would (try a straight bit). I’ve never been afraid of doing things that others might think are a little bit unconventional. That is about THE ONLY advantage of living in an area where there are few, if any, others using work horses … THERE IS NO ONE AROUND TO TELL ME THAT I AM DOING EVERYTHING WRONG! (Then again, there are no bonafide mentors)

I say try whatever you think might work; what do you have to lose?

[Rod]

Thanks for the additional information, I didn’t intend to be brusque in my previous response but on re-reading it it comes across that way. I am really excited that the bit change may solve this problem which has had me stumped and I appreciate ALL the posts and find each one to be helpful in some way.

[J-L]

Wow CIW, I thought you’d fell of the end of the earth! Hope you and yours are fine.
I’d try a straight bit, might be you could borrow a few different ones to try before buying.
That Kimberwick with a low port that I use on one mule is a fairly comfortable bit for him.
When I have a saddle horse with issues like some described, a trip to the dentist might not be a bad idea. Wolf teeth can really play hell with a bit in their mouth.
JenJudkins I do what you describe with my mules. Let them find the place they want to pack it and then adjust the headstall to that point. Got a kick out of your ‘foreplay’ description! But that’s a good point. Usually this is accompanied with them picking their head up and being tough to bridle as well.
Working some half halts helps with some of these things too. I do it with teams and saddle horses.

[near horse]

Below is an exerpt from the natural horse website. I thought it might help some.

There was an excellent post on the rec.equestrian newsgroup based on Dr. Deb Bennett’s July 1993 EQUUS article on bit fitting and severity. This page has been sourced from REC.EQUESTRIAN, the body of the text has been unaltered as far as possible. The information is for use at your own risk.

Using a bit incorrectly or using the wrong type of bit can create problems. Some of the most common are:

Avoidance of the bit.
Running through the bit.
Carriage behind the bit.
Dryness of mouth.
Overactive mouthing/chewing of the bit.

For training the green horse we use a sweet iron bit with copper inlays which has 3 inch D rings. We recommend starting with D-ring snaffle bits as opposed to loose ring snaffles because the loose ring snaffles may pinch or cut the mouth of a young horse. We want to make sure that everything we do when handling a young horse is set up for a positive experience. These bits also have enough room in the D ring for the slobber straps and headstall. Sweet iron rusts which causes the horse to salivate, the copper causes salivation too. For some reason, horses really like the taste of the rust. You may see this as ugly rust, but the horse will love it. The snaffle bit is broken or jointed in the middle, which means that it is intended to be used with both hands on the reins as opposed to a curb bit which can be used in one hand.

[becorson]

a couple of thoughts come to mind:

a jointed bit (snaffle) pinches the tongue and lower jaw like a nut cracker. A “french link snallfe” -with two joints- reduces the nut-cracker actiona little but i have not seen driving bits with a french link… only riding bits.
a curb or leverage bit (a liverpool , bruxton etc) puts pressure on the poll (behind the ears) and also traps the tongue and lower jaw between the mouthpiece of the bit and the curb strap. the degree of leverage depends on the length of the lever arms where the cheek pieces and the reins attach.
a straight bar bit has the simplest action but any bit can cause pain, even a straight bar bit (put a pencil in your mouth and pull down, pressing on your tongue to see what i mean. )
Horses can resist pressure from the bit and from the various parts of the bridle. for example, some horses have problems with headshaking unless they have a shaped crown piece that give them more space behind their ears (my older mare is one of them).
many horses are quite sensitive to pressure on their tongues . a curved mouth peice that allows some tongue relief can help.
with any bit, the horse has to be able to get relief from pressure by doing the “right” thing. if the horse is stopped, for example, or turning correctly, etc but there is still unrelenting pressure on the bit, many horses will resent that. remember that the horse’s team mate may be irritating him/ her , too.
overall, i have come to believe that the bit doesn’t matter as much as the teamster’s hands. a millimeter of space and a fraction of a second difference in timing can make a difference.

(not that i have hands like that, mind you, but i have been privileged to see some that do)

[Robert MoonShadow]

So what would be the best bit to start a donkey with? This guy hasn’t ever been bridled (that we know of) – at least not in the 5 years the previous owner has had him. I’ll be using him for driving a small wagon/cart, small farm implements/forecart, some snigging of firewood logs. Oh, and he’s an intact jack (large standard), if that makes a difference. I want to keep his mouth as soft as possible, yet maintain control. Although, from what I’m getting to understand, it’s not so much control, {as in out-power}, but more communication. I probably didn’t say that very well, but hopefully it’s understandable. I took a look at one of the places online selling bits… so many, of so many styles & designs that it hurt my brain… so much so, I went back to doing taxes to ease the pain. :confused:

[Author]

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