Bits

[Thecowboysgirl]

I watch a lot of videos on driving drafts and I keep consistently seeing some crazy bits in these horses’ mouths. Much more severe than I am used to using.

Why the heavy artillery in the mouth? Is it to prevent runaways, is it really necessary? My ponies came with western bridles and therefore curb bits, I just ordered an eggbutt snaffle to start ground driving them.

Granted I basically know nothing about my ponies at this point because I have not driven them & have only ridden the gelding once. If I find they’re too strong for the old eggbutt I’d certainly switch up but if they don’t give me any trouble is there some reason why I couldn’t just stick with a plain jane bit?

[Big Horses]

We usually run a “military elbow” bit, but mostly because we’re in a crowd of people alot. For farm work, we use a snaffle alot as well. The main thing to remember is that it’s not how severe a bit, but how severe the hands are on the ends of the lines. You can always lighten up, but especially when in a crowd, (such as a parade, or carriage work) it’s nice to have that extra “brakes” if things start to come unravelled.
John

[blue80]

When I asked a friend of mine the same question, he said bits are like shoes. You have different pairs for different days and uses. In his opinion we should change bits more often if we are in tune to our animals.
One of my mares wont settle down. My friend shows up one day with a homemade bit, says “maybe try this out” I asked “what is it?” He says “homemade”
It works. A bit of copper, a roller, a flapper that he got his son to braze together on a snaffle.

My friend is 65 years old. This time last year I bought a rank 13 yr old who had been used as a stud until 11yrs old. As I worked with him the gelding seemed weird with a couple different bits so I went to rubber.
My friend ran him up and down Red Lodge main street all summmer with a rubber bit, and said that the horse never once pulled against it. (and Red Lodge is a biker haven in the summer)

So I would recommend do whatever makes your horse viable and content, and you feel is safe.

Best, Kevin

[Thecowboysgirl]

Well, I use different gear on my dogs depending on where we are going, so that theory makes sense. There are times when I need “power steering” on the dogs. So thinking ahead to the situation and what kind of stimulation/excitement ect it might cause the animal is something I’m familiar with.

I guess philosophically I always want to start on something soft and work my way up as needed. But I have also seen a few bad wrecks caused by riders who got into a pinch and then wound up panicking and yanking on a harsh bit which caused the horse to rear and flip or some other nasty outcome.

But it sounds like people can and do drive in very soft bits so I will feel my way along from here. I am not unwilling to use something else if I need to. I have great hands while riding, I just don’t know if that transfers to being a beginner driver if you know what I mean.

Thanks for all the advice…so excited to get started, wish my stuff would come already!!

[Roscoe]

I like the Liverpool, if you have the reins in the ring, you have a very soft bit, even softer then a snaffle bit, if you need more control, you put the reins in the first or second slot. Specially if you drive with more then one horse, you can make the settings for each horse individually. By the team of my four-in-hand mentor, one horse had the reins in the ring, two in the first slot, and one in the second.

If you’re going to buy bits with shanks (Liverpool, Buxton, Ellbow, Butterfly), dont buy any jointed ones.

[Thecowboysgirl]

If you’re going to buy bits with shanks (Liverpool, Buxton, Ellbow, Butterfly), dont buy any jointed ones.

Your description of the liverpool sounds great…could you explain jointed vs non jointed. I don’t think I’ve ever used a nonjoined bit.

Thanks

[Roscoe]

It’s hard for me to explain that in english, but I will give a try…
Jointed and non jointed bits give different signals to the mouth. As long the reins are in the top ring by a jointed bit with shanks, it works like a snaffle bit, and that’s fine. But when you put the reins in lower slot, there is a lot of torque in the horse mouth, and the horse gets a strange and (depends how hard you pull) torturing signal.
The design of the part that is in the mouth (straight, curved, port, wire, copper, rubber, jointed) depends of the horse.
The design of outside(ring, Liverpool, Butterfly Buxton) depends on the style of the harness (work, show, driving).
If you run a show hitch, and you have a horse that better works with a jointed bit, thats the case when you use a jointed Liverpool or Buxton, but then the reins belong to the ring.

[Scott G]

Julianna,

I am a big fan of the Liverpool snaffle as well. You can attach your lines directly to the snaffle ring for your softest mouth or work your way down the shank and utilize the curb chain if needed. It is not uncommon (at least for me) to switch settings for the same horse as the situation, and his attitude, dictate. I always start soft and very conservatively work up (down the shank) from there. I hate existing hardmouths, I don’t want to create one. Rather than running up to the barn to snap a pic I found these on Google images.

Click on this link for Liverpool snaffle images

[Andy Carson]

Julianna,
You don’t have to use a leverage bit to drive. Personally, I have never felt the need for additional leverage. I am sure some horses or situation need them, but I don’t think this is a “one size fit’s all” situation. Are your horses responsive to the bit when you ride? What about when you ground drive? It is was me, if they ground drive well in a snaffle, I would keep them in the snaffle. If I felt like I really had to exert alot of force, I try a harsher bit and see how they go. That said, the horse would have to convince me that it needed it and I would likley try to move back to a snaffle later if I could. You will certainly hear different opinions from others, but many people drive in snaffles. I am pretty young and male and can pull pretty hard on the reins if I have to (even though I try to never do this), also I only drive a single horse, and I don’t take my horse in public. All of these things make using a snaffle an easier option, but it s a real option. I think there is an immediacy and intimacy that I feel with a snaffle, that I personally don’t feel with leverage bits. That said, I am not used to a leverage bit enough to give it a fair chance… The choice is ultimately yours, but a snaffle can be a valid choice.

PS. Your “hands” transfer well, so trust you instincts with them and be confident. I also rode before I drove, but I have no idea how “good” or a rider I was… 🙂 The main thing I think about with a beginner is safety, so just make sure your think about what could happen if there is a spook or a runaway, and spend some time ground driving. I bet you’ll learn alot pretty fast.

[sickle hocks]

Roscoe made a great point above, about avoiding shanked bits that are jointed. Scott, it sounds like you’ve had good luck with liverpool snaffles, I just thought we should mention that you can get all of the advantages you mentioned (easily adjusting from no leverage to slight leverage to lots of leverage) by using a liverpool bar bit. What is avoided is the confusion you can cause a horse with a levered jointed bit…these put pressure on odd and unexpected areas of the mouth and can be very confusing, especially for a horse that is just learning, and especially when direct reining as we do when driving.

Like Roscoe said, it’s a difficult thing to explain or visualize, but this article does a pretty good job…(a ‘tom thumb’ is another type of shanked, leverage jointed bit, sometimes used to transition western horses from snaffle to curb…it’s function in the mouth is essentially the same as a jointed liverpool / liverpool snaffle)

http://www.markrashid.com/trouble_with_tom_thumb.htm

If you just google liverpool bit you will see what a plain unjointed liverpool bar bit is, which gives you different leverage options without the confusion If I really have to use a jointed, shanked bit then I go for one with a french link, or two joints, as this seems to resolve a lot of the problems with confusing signals.

[Roscoe]

Sickle Hocks, thanks for posting this link!
I found an other interesting link about rein setting:
http://www.drivingessentials.com/lp_rein_settings.php

[Thecowboysgirl]

Thanks for the discussion of bits & all your explanations. I am ground driving & longeing in the snaffle with no problem. Have not had a chance to ride them in it yet.

If I ever get the sense it’s too soft for them I’ll try that Liverpool. That sounds like a good step 2. If they want to do anything it’s go slow 🙂 Which is FINE with me.

[Anonymous]

hi there, very interesting things 🙂

[Anonymous]

Hi Everyone from NM! I just got my first Haflinger. I have learned a lot about bits for driving from reading this forum. What bits would you recommend for riding. I want to be able to stop her, but not deaden her mouth.
Thanks for All the Wisdom!
Carol

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