Chaining Loads on a Bobsled

[Carl Russell]

@Scott G 32959 wrote:

……General assumption being that the long grab/fid hook is used for pushing under the log to run the choker. ……

I can see that…

Carl

[mitchmaine]

scott,
that makes sense. i think you just closed the loop. its also a good tool for stretching a chain, when you need an extra linc, you can use it as a lever and pry against the log with a link in the bight to pull up chaine you might not get with your hand. if that makes any sense.
mitch

[Carl Russell]

@Carl Russell 32875 wrote:

……

I hope to get my sled out on our new snow today or tomorrow, and will try to capture better footage…….

Carl

So the memory chip topped out before I got what I wanted, but I did have an interesting day anyway. Instead of starting a new thread where these comments may get lost, I thought I would include them here.

Earlier this winter when I was pulling out some bridle chains for George, I came across an old chain I had around waiting for the time when I needed to replace old sections. I cut two new lengths and was a bit nonchalant about exact length. I looped them around above the rave irons and by eye they appeared to be where I wanted.

The other day I finally had snow cover enough to cross some serious ice and take the sled to the top of the hill for some wood. I put on about 1.5 cords of soft maple and headed on down. Between the weight of the load, snow, and ice, the sled pushed pretty good on the team, so I put on one chain to start with. The first seriously steep section is only about 50′ long and then levels out for another 50′ or so, so I wasn’t too concerned that one chain wasn’t quite enough to hold the sled back. Gravity can be a good thing, so I generally don’t get too worried if the sled goes easily downhill IF I know the horses will be able to steer it.

When I got down to the last steep stretch, about 200′ of steep and steeper, with broad-based dips, and several turns, over a 30′ ice flow, ending at a narrow culverted stream crossing, I decided I needed both chains. About 20′ after I started down one of the cains snubbed up against a protruding rock frozen into the trail. We were stopped dead. Horses downhill from the sled to a point where their heads were about even with the bunk on the sled, and not advantage to be gained.

I had to unhook the bridle chains and pry them out from under the runners. This is a time consuming maneuver, putting the point into a link and levering over the runner, alternating with digging under the runner to remove resistance, but in the end a functional escape. Once the chains were free, I reset them in front of the runners and proceeded. Unbelievably I got another 20′ before it happened again. In all I performed this task 3 more times.

I have never had this happen before, and I have covered several miles with this set-up. In fact the problem occurred on ice, frozen dirt, and in a muddy section. I was pretty frustrated to say the least.

Upon investigation I found that these new bridle chains were just long enough to reach right under the bunk. This is too far. What was happening was that the entire weight of the load was bearing down on the chains and the least resistance was magnified. The proper length should have the chain loop about 12″ in front of the bunk. In this way the sled is actually putting pressure down on the chain, but there is less relative pressure, and the load actually pushes the chains a bit more.

I know the conditions played a part, but I will shorten the chains and try again this weekend.

I should have that load chaining footage then too.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Carl, when you are chaining only 2 logs on your bottom tier against your bunk you use the same chaining system as multiple logs, correct (like the picture below)? This is one of two 20 foot but logs and I chained them both the same way (they did not come off). Also, when you only have two logs on your bottom bunk are you limited to just one one top? I ended putting on a 12′ log on top but wasn’t sure about the dynamics of putting more.
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-P6M1f0eo3YU/T1krATAG7tI/AAAAAAAABSo/jYa_W_4Qf-0/s800/P1030710.JPG[/IMG]

I found what I thought was the perfect nook to load these large logs. I However, ground skidding those logs made a waterway right into the depression where my sled was parked. By the time I had the load chained down the water and 60 degree weather turned the depression to soup and the horses were up to their hocks. I tried a couple of times to get tem hitched – no go. They couldn’t back up in the muck. I ended up making a little water bar to divert the water and cut a bunch of wood and hemlock boughs to throw in the pit :eek:. An hour later, finally got them hitched and off we went.

Despite the learning curve, I am loving the bobsled. I now understand why you call it the “weapon”
[IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZcG2Gl9GcWE/T1krCBE5nRI/AAAAAAAABSw/3BSbNW3GiB4/s800/P1030711.JPG[/IMG]

George

George

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 33196 wrote:

Carl, when you are chaining only 2 logs on your bottom tier against your bunk you use the same chaining system as multiple logs, correct (like the picture below)? This is one of two 20 foot but logs and I chained them both the same way (they did not come off). Also, when you only have two logs on your bottom bunk are you limited to just one one top? I ended putting on a 12′ log on top but wasn’t sure about the dynamics of putting more….

Despite the learning curve, I am loving the bobsled. I now understand why you call it the “weapon”…….
George

Yep George, over for one, under and over for two, over, under, and over for three, and so on……

If there is room to for more than one, I would see no reason not to load more. I would also say that you could put a few smaller diameter logs in the middle on the bunk too…

Getting stuck in the mud is a great way to refine your ultimate use of the “weapon”….

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Ok, so I could have put the larger diameter logs on the outside and squeezed a smaller one in between thus providing a nest or depression for the logs on top? Just so I am clear, your top logs do not necessarily need to rest at the junction of the two below them, kind of like a pyramid?

George

[Tim Harrigan]

@Does’ Leap 33211 wrote:

… your top logs do not necessarily need to rest at the junction of the two below them, kind of like a pyramid? George

George, you are confusing me. Where else would they go? Seems like that would be the most stable place.

[Does’ Leap]

Tim, at least on my scoot, I sometimes have 4 logs on the bottom against my bunks and 4, usually smaller, logs on top (i.e. they don’t rest in the junction between the logs). I get away with this b/c there are less forces acting against the logs compared with a bobsled. My question is whether I can get away with that on a bobsled or am I asking for trouble?

George

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 33216 wrote:

…. My question is whether I can get away with that on a bobsled or am I asking for trouble?

George

Yes you can, just roll them around to get the tightest fit, then bind them…..

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

@Carl Russell 32833 wrote:

The trick to twisting the chains around each other is pretty straight forward. First of all I ALWAYS have the grab-hook end of my chains coming up in front of the bunk, and the slip-hook end coming up behind the bunk. You want to end up with the slip-hook end hanging downward over the outside log, and the grab-hook end coming up under that outside log. To achieve that, the ends have to go over, or under, the first log (just off-center of the bunk) in accordance to how you expect them to end up on the outside log.

Carl

The good news is that I have yet to lose a load. The bad news is that chaining my load is not as seamless as I would like it to be. What takes some time for me is the set up of the chain around the bunk before I start weaving. Like the pattern of the weave (over and under for 1 and 3 logs, the opposite for even logs), I would like to create a rule (for myself) on how to start the chain around the bunk. Here’s what I came up with:
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TirglSnFh4M/UOigv8M06_I/AAAAAAAABmY/lQ8AkzM8geA/s912/P1040152.JPG[/IMG]

I then continue under and over my logs and weave with my grab end toward the inside of the bunk and take the slack out.
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c7ThEbXsLvc/UOigwasigVI/AAAAAAAABmg/yKqQL1fDsOw/s912/P1040153.JPG[/IMG]

[Does’ Leap]

With an odd number of logs, I pass the slip hook under and over the bunk.
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TO2PnxBFTxo/UOihPsXh-2I/AAAAAAAABmw/al_tTSYSI3s/s912/P1040154.JPG[/IMG]

……Over the first log and so on.
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-InVSsCop35w/UOihRHqAVXI/AAAAAAAABnA/Mq3iU0c2ZVs/s912/P1040156.JPG[/IMG]

Finishing up with the grab hook side of my chain.
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_MsLSDn3zdw/UOiha7p5DMI/AAAAAAAABnI/8jirYsRLsJM/s912/P1040157.JPG[/IMG]

Does this “rule” (i.e. how to start with the slip hook on the bunk) make sense? Does my twist seem correct? I think on this same thread you wrote to think of the bunk as another log and what I am doing here (I think) seem to be consistent with that.

George

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 38747 wrote:

…….Does this “rule” (i.e. how to start with the slip hook on the bunk) make sense? Does my twist seem correct? I think on this same thread you wrote to think of the bunk as another log and what I am doing here (I think) seem to be consistent with that.George

It looks fine George. My rule is that I keep my chains exactly the same, time and time again, so I never have to think about which hook is where. My bunk chains are 15 feet long, and I would rather just uncoil them and lay them out, instead of handling the whole length one way or the other to change the way I thread them. The slip end is rarely more than 5 feet long, so I find it pretty easy to just pull it back and reverse the twist at the center if there is an odd number.

Practice makes perfect. Part of the art is finding the modifications that work for you.

Carl

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