Change in Goverment?

[dominiquer60]

OldKat you are right about a lot of things especially the cattle and horse bit, but it doesn’t disqualify you at all. The big thing that I disagree with is that I put a lot of hope on one human everyday and for the rest of my life, me. I have to take responsibility for myself and I hope that I make good decisions for me, my family and my intimate community. I do hope that Obama and friends manage to start to improve the man made craziness that is our government and economy, I won’t celebrate until they show progress. I will do my best to support my causes and vote, but at the end of the day, the decisions that I make have the greatest influence on me, therefore my greatest hope lies in myself.

[OldKat]

@dominiquer60 5450 wrote:

OldKat you are right about a lot of things especially the cattle and horse bit, but it doesn’t disqualify you at all. The big thing that I disagree with is that I put a lot of hope on one human everyday and for the rest of my life, me. I have to take responsibility for myself and I hope that I make good decisions for me, my family and my intimate community. I do hope that Obama and friends manage to start to improve the man made craziness that is our government and economy, I won’t celebrate until they show progress. I will do my best to support my causes and vote, but at the end of the day, the decisions that I make have the greatest influence on me, therefore my greatest hope lies in myself.

Yes! I totally agree, that is the qualifier I should have used when I said “any”. You are 100% correct, we have to take responsibility for our own actions; our families welfare, our community, schools etc. We vote for those whom we think we agree with, we really have no real control of what they do once they are in office.

We do have control over what we do as individuals … the “me” that you so correctly point out as the most critical person that we can have hope in. Obviously I have hope my wife will do the right things, I hope my kids will do the right things, I hope my friends will do the right things. I hope all mankind does the right things for that matter. I can’t control any of these. I can however control what I do & can take great hope in that.

Great point, thanks for correcting me. Oh, and thanks for the kind words.

[Vicki]

When you no longer own anything, or cannot make any decisions about the use of any property or capital, because it is owned by “the people”, “the state”, “society”, or is regulated by the same, you can no longer decide to use it or give it to help or to better anyone else.

Like Robert Moonshadow, government should leave us alone and concentrate on its Constitutionally enumerated responsibilities.

[near horse]

When you no longer own anything, or cannot make any decisions about the use of any property or capital, because it is owned by “the people”, “the state”, “society”, or is regulated by the same, you can no longer decide to use it or give it to help or to better anyone else

And your point is what? People without anything can’t control anything?

Get over the “that’s what the founding fathers said in the Constitution” stuff. They were no more than a handful of men w/ all the same shortcomings as men today – so stop restricting progress to the strict interpretation of a 200+ yr old document.

And Robert Moonshadow, while we don’t agree on some topics, has been nothing short of polite and accommodating of other viewpoints. No reason to attack him.

[near horse]

Come on Bret. The conservative “markets will fix everything” capitalist model sure is working out well, isn’t it?
While they have most of their followers chasing gay marriage, gun control, and abortion, the primary players are cleaning out your bank accounts, 401Ks, retirement accts. It’s time to leave the “dark side”.

[Robert MoonShadow]

No matter what your view of the situation is, the bottom line is:
What are you going to do about it?
You can take it as it is, work to change it, or b***h about it.
Like Samuel Clemens {AKA Mark Twain} once said: “Politics is like the weather: everybody complains about it… no one does anything about it.”

[Hal]

@Robert MoonShadow 6604 wrote:

Like Samuel Clemens {AKA Mark Twain} once said: “Politics is like the weather: everybody complains about it… no one does anything about it.”

I second that thought! I have never yet seen someone change their mind or actions based on a political debate (but then, I haven’t seen or participated in that many political debates).

[Robert MoonShadow]

Hal – I have changed my mind on political topics (and many others, including religion) – I’m not narrow-minded enough not to, if given a logical course of thought to consider – however, I don’t ever listen to dogma at all. But then, I’m a freak of nature, I guess; because I’ve got some conservative values… and some equally firm liberal ones, too. I’m not “middle-of-the-road” at all –> I just have a value system based on what I’ve studied & contemplated & decided fits me. I just don’t fit into any of those tight harnesses of thought. My opinion can change as the opportunities & circumstances change. I don’t fit my values & beliefs to fit any certain political party or figure… I actually have the audacity to expect the politicians to change to fit my needs & desires; with the knowledge that if I am not in the majority of thought, my beliefs won’t prevail – which is as it should be in this country. But then, I won’t knock it (a la Rush Limbaugh), but rather attempt to change my fellow citizens to my way of thought, via persuasion – not ‘moral’ brow-beating (a la Obama supporters). I guess I’m just your average everyday liberal-thinking, morally conservative democratic republican dirt farmer. Um, which political party might that be? :confused:

[Hal]

Robert, I apologize if it seemed that I was suggesting that anyone on this forum is narrow minded. That was not my intent at all. I personally have never had good experiences with political debates, but I sure am glad to hear that others can get good things out of them.

[Carl Russell]

I have been out of the loop on this discussion, and will not contribute substantively, but I just want to reiterate, that although differing views are important to me, we all need to remain polite, and make pertinent responses, absent of the insulting name calling, label hurling etc., that tends to reduce the discussion to a frustrating experience.

Let that be a warning:D

Carl

[Robert MoonShadow]

Hal ~ I wasn’t insulted by any of your comments… and thank you for the politeness of apologizing! I was merely stating my views & pointing out that I don’t really fit into the category you were talking about –> nothing wrong, really, with the conservative or liberal ways of thought… I just don’t adhere to them.
What is interesting to note here, is that on this forum we can & do discuss – and disagree – on political, religious & moral topics, yet still maintain personal & each other’s dignity & value of opinion – all this while for many of us, we’ve never met –> yet Congress seems to have ‘a bit of difficulty’ doing so…
Again, Hal, thanks for the attention shown in your apology; and please, feel free to speak your mind with me – I’m not easily offended.

[near horse]

WOW! I just noticed this. Yup, get over that Constitution and Bill of Rights stuff. The Progressives are here to save us all. What hogwash! That 200 year old document and it’s outmoded ideas are all that makes it possible for you to voice your opinion!!! OPEN YOUR EYES!

Here’s my best attempt a civil response(and my tongue is bleeding from biting it :D).
1) nobody said “The Progressives” were going to do anything or save anybody.
2) nobody said to get over the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Get over the “that’s what the founding fathers said in the Constitution” stuff

That means literal interpretation of a 200 yr old document.
3) nobody said all the ideas were outmoded.

Government isn’t the answer, it’s the problem

Wasn’t that from the B-movie where Ronald Reagan played the role of a doddering president?

It’s your money that’s being spent without your say so.

You/we did say so. We have a representative form of govt and we elected people to represent us – so we did choose.

There are plenty of citizens that think the billions spent in Iraq was w/o their say so as well. Or the border wall. That’s just how it works when you’re part of a society.

I have NO use for the liberal Democrat/Progressive/Socialist movement. My biggest complaint is taxes followed by the unending number of things our Gov’t tells me I CAN’t do. I can’t do this, I can’t do that.

Taxes!? Uner the current plan you’re getting a tax break from them so what’s the complaint? I don’t know how many folks on this site are clearing more than $250,000 but I venture to say it’s not many. That segment of the population has been making out like bandits for too long and should start paying their fair share. And they will only go from a 35% to 39% tax rate. Back in the good old days that you harken back to

I wish our country would return (in a sense) to traditional small farms and locally produced foodstuffs. I wish the American family could still make it with Dad working and Mom taking care of the house and kids.

these same people were taxed at 50% and even up to 90%. See any relationship?

And what exactly is the govt keeping you, personally, from doing through its legislation?
Buying an AK47 or something?

I thought that we were supposed to be so grateful to the founding fathers because we can do just about anything thanks to the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

The bottom line is there will always be things in “governing” or “managing” people that some those being governed won’t agree like or agree with. That’s part of living in a society.

[Carl Russell]

You guys are very well thought, and right, in your own ways, I’m satisfied with that, I hope you can be too.

Carl

[Plowboy]

I am a hunter and also have a concealed weapons permit. I do not carry a gun other than hunting season or when I see something suspicious happening on my property. If I think it is a dangerous situation it is probable that I have a 44 magnum on me when I go investigate.I will protect my family and property from criminals. I do vote and I don’t agree with the recent government but I can’t change it. I choose not to stress over it and mind my own business. I am a busy hardworking person and need not stress myself over government. I oppose NAIS and would like to keep my guns and have lower taxes but it is out of my hands except for expressing my views to politicians. I will still protect my family and property with whatever means necessary. My Great Grandfather on my Dads mother’s side was a short Irishman that liked to drink at the local tavern on payday. He was small and the bigger guys started picking on him one night and shoving him around and eventually threw him out in the street even though he hadn’t bothered anyone. He walked home and knocked the handle out of his pick axe and went back to the tavern and cleaned everyones clock with it. Nobody ever bothered him again. If they take my guns I guess I can’t stop government so I would probably have to turn them in. I think it will be many years before it ever happened, like NAIS it may never get off the ground but doesn’t hurt to keep an eye on it. Bret maybe you should spend more time working your horses and less time worrying about a government that you can’t change. Enjoy life and take it one day at a time while keeping an eye on new regulations but don’t let fear of government rule your life. No matter what your cause, extremism does nothing for the cause or the solution.

[near horse]

I am finished.

[Author]

Posts