Commercial firewood harvesting

[Carl Russell]

Robert here is a pic to wet your appetite.

[IMG]

Originally posted by Bivol in Favorite horse breeds,

Carl

[near horse]

Robert – I wouldn’t split it in the woods unless you’re going to load it on the truck and deliver it on the way home.

Maybe I’m missing something but doesn’t 1/3 of a cord of wood weigh the same amount whether it’s split or still in log form? Assuming the same moisture. If your animals are capable of pulling that weight, isn’t it “easier” to drag it as one entity (a log) rather than a stack of 16″ firewood?

Without getting too complicated in my description, in Robert’s case wouldn’t a simple go-devil or bogan(I think that’s a term) work well? Cut to length that your donkeys can handle, load front end on apparatus to aid in skidding, chain up and away. In Gregg Caudell’s video he has a simple one of these made out of 2″ pipe – probably 2’W x 3’L .

Anyway, if I seem obtuse and confused by the discussion, I apologize. It’s been a long day. Good night:)

[Carl Russell]

There are several reasons for at least cutting rounds and moving them by sled. From my experience cleaning up trees that are already down, it can be extremely difficult to get to them and by cutting them to rounds, the operator can maneuver the product better. The other is that with small animals you will have to figure in as much advantage as possible, such as getting the load off the ground, and stabilized on unpredictable slope.

I would build a small sledge, possibly 6 feet long, 2″-2 1/2″ thick runners, with wooden shoes, 2 1/2′ – 3′ wide ( narrow enough so you can walk beside if you are going to drive, don’t worry about trying to ride), with 2 bunks and a simple deck. The more wood you use to build it the less wood your going to be able to haul. The deck can be attached to the bunks by screws or bolts, but the bunks need to be attached to the runners with substantial bolts or pins to take the abuse from variable terrain.

I would not haul logs, such as I do on my scoot, but would load blocks or short lengths that can be easily moved by hand, possibly more like a 1/4 cord at a time. The easier the load the more work you can get out of them. With a head board or posts, the blocks can be chained down to secure them. My experience would shy away from trying to make a box as this would eventually work apart from rocking and rolling.

This all gets me to thinking about hauling the donks to the job, and finding landing areas where you can stockpile wood to make the increased enterprise more cost effective without losing the wood to hackers. If this is going to be an endeavor to increase income, the added costs will increase the need to produce, and to market. Keep that in mind.

Carl

[Robert MoonShadow]

Geoff; You’re not being obtuse. That’s exactly what I have in mind, for the ‘smaller’ logs, cut into about 4′ lengths. However, much of what I can get is quite large (2 – 4′ thick) f or a donkey to be able to pull a very long log. I only split these rounds in half or so, at the truck, so I can lift them onto the truck.
Carl; Good points on the sled. However, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘wood shoes’? My idea to bypass the need of a landing or yard (and increased risk of theft) is to haul the donk up, spend that day falling & bucking to size, then the next using the donk to skid/load the trailer, hauling the donk out on the last load. This gives me 2 days away from the farm at a time, which is about right for length, while placing me in the woods where I can work from “can see to can’t”. I think a sledge such as you described would be usable for rounds, as well as for the 4-6′ logs of smaller diameter. Would you suggest some sort of metal on the bottom of the runners?

[Carl Russell]

It is cheaper to use additional pieces of wood attached to the bottom of the runner, so that they can take the wear. If you are good with steel, you can use steel, 1/4″x2″ flat stock with 1/2 bolts welded to it that reach through the runner. You should use a second steel shoe tack welded on to the first, so that when that wears away you still have something to weld a new one onto.

Wooden shoes are typically 3″x3″ or 4″x4″ made out of hardwood. The runner should have a straight angle cut at the front, like a sled runner, 4″-6″ of rise/1′ of run. Bolt the long shoe onto the flat bottom of the runner, then cut of the extra along the angle of the front of the runner. Take that piece, turn it over and bolt it to the bottom of the rising angle. The front shoe overlaps the back shoe where the two angles meet, and takes a lot of the wear. Countersink the bolts 2″ or more so that you can get good wear out of the shoe before the bolts start to drag.

If you build the sled cheap enough, you may not want to take the extra time and effort. Just use a couple of sturdy 2″-3″ softwood planks, bolt on some bunks, and a deck, or rails, and wear the whole thing out.

I usually use a team on a sled, and I travel up to 1/2 mile, especially on snow, and put as big a load on as I can reasonably expect, so I over build my sleds, using steel and hardwood.

Carl

[Robert MoonShadow]

Carl; With this sled, are you thinking it to be used by a single or a team? I’m assuming a single, with your referrence to only 1/4 cord at a time? With it being on runners, would it need shafts {or a pole when using a team on it}? I don’t see how it’d work for backing, anyways (on runners), but don’t know if ‘run-up’ is a worry? I saw the photos you posted elsewhere, showing how you attach your pole/chains to the unit for manueverability… same/similar w/ shafts? Or would this application for this type of work preclude it? Using your suggested measurements for the runners & shoes, that gives it what? About 4-6″ of ground clearance for the deck?
And you other loggers out there: any suggestions, modifications or ideas? Any ideas on production that would 1) Increase safety 2) Increase productivity 3) Deter wood-pirates? {I’ve already mentioned the only thing I’ve thought of}. What about the choice of using a team, or alternating single donkeys after several rounds –> which tends to be more efficient & yet best for the animals? Considering the load weight-to-animal size ratio to be similar as a draft horse, how many hours can be reasonably expected in a day? Understanding that terrain, weather, animal fitness, etc. are variables to be considered, only a rough estimate is expected or hoped for. And thank you for your help.

[Carl Russell]

Robert, I’m thinking part-time work, salvage cutting, labor intensive firewood. Make it simple and low cost. If you start thinking team, and any terrain, and heavy costly sled building, then your going to be thinking Halflingers?, Belgians?, purchasing stumpage, logging full-time?

I was thinking small sled that doesn’t need to be backed up because it is so small you can turn it around when the animal gets it to the tree. Just use it with a single to maximize maneuverability, and only go after the trees on terrain where you can use the sled without too much danger. You’re already doing so much by hand, just use a little more muscle from the donk.

I know where you are, it is similar to how I farm, big enough to get as much as I need, but not so big that I have to bury myself in it, not quite big enough to justify a lot of time and expense, but big enough to require more than I have sometimes. It really comes down to your own preferences. My suggestion, and that is all it is, is just try some of this , and a little of that, and just see what works, and how you can get the animals to really help.

Carl

[Anonymous]

robert
here’s some input, go cheap. basic stuff like harness, singletree, choker chain is a given, gotta have that. but your sled could be something simple, like an old plastic kayak. your in salmon river country right? call around, your looking for what’s called a playboat, short but wide, with a really big cockpit, you can even cut in yourself a place for your saw. once you get all the debris knocked out of your skid trail things ought to be smooth enough to hitch a ride both ways. no, i haven’t used one in this application. i’m still dragging my sticks through the dirt. go for it. bob h.

[simon lenihan]

i have seen the bonnet from a car used very successfully to extract peat, would work just as well for firewood.
simon lenihan

[Gabe Ayers]

Having lived in England for a few years while in service I can translate that a bonnet is the hood of an auto. It might have to be an older one to have enough metal to make more than a couple of skids…

[RAL]

Hi there, I have used a half canoe to haul out small amounts of firewood. It came from a plastic canoe that was damaged beyond repair. I cut it into two peices. It slides easy across the ground and the front is tapered which helps it bounce off stumps and rocks. It is also low to the ground for easier loading. I have used for stove length and 4′ stuff. I have pulled it with a snowmobile as well as with my horse. With snow on the ground it is somtimes hard to stop it, with it loaded. It needs some kind of hitch on it. I am not sure if this helps, but it may give someone an idea. Roy

[Robert MoonShadow]

Thanks for all the ideas! I thought of the hood (bonnet) idea; saw an old Studebaker or DeSoto, and instantly saw heavier & more reusable substitute for my plastic toboggan. Never heard of a ‘playboat’, but will check it out. Mostly driftboats & jetboats around here nowadays. Bob H. –> Yeah, I guess you could say I live in the Salmon River country: I can cast into it from the edge of this property (I rent) during high water season… have to actually walk about 100′ to it now! 😀 In fact, I’m off to catch some salmon in just a few. I wasn’t sure if any sled device would need shafts to hold back on slopes or would just get in the way? I just viewed the dvd Geoff sent me of Greg Caudell’s logging & he didn’t use one, but his Belgians looked like they had to step pretty lively at times to avoid run-up. I’m still considering trying to figure out the numbers to downsize the walkingbeam logcart to fit a large standard donkey.

[Jim Ostergard]

I built a small scoot this winter. Used pine for the runners with locust for shoes. Its about 9′ overall. On the bunks I kept my stake holders flush. Use it for small logs, and 4′ firewood. I also rigged a piece of plywood that went from bunk to bunk and cut out over the stake holders. I then built a small plank stake body to go into the stake holders. They hold the plywood down well enough when light and I now have a box for fitted wood. Saves me the extra handing that goes with 4′ wood. I can fit it at the dropped tree and haul directly to the wood shed or truck to take home. Also the small rig I can easily take apart and load it by myself into the horse trailer. I sure like it. Am using it now to haul brush and small dia stuff to a burn pile on a house lot, “parking it out” job.

[jen judkins]

Jim, I would love to see a photo of your scoot. Any chance you would post a photo?

[Jim Ostergard]

I have one that Linda took and I will have to mess with it a bit in iPhoto but will give it a try real soon. If I can’t I will try and take the camera with me tomorrow and show it with a load of brush. What a gale of wind (NW 30-40) here today. No day for felling or burning

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