Commercial firewood harvesting

[Carl Russell]

Lance, I’m in Vermont, and have some familiarity with the Sterling College draft animal program.

Carl

[lancek]

hi carl
I gaduated from there in 1978 and thats how I got started in substainable forestry and horse logging I now do a timber management program and firewood opperation !

[Gabe Ayers]

Lance,

You may have been at Sterling when Ross Morgan was the forestry professor and maybe a fellow named David Birdsall was the horseman? Ross is a great forester and old friend. Ross thinks pretty highly of David Birdsall and says he thinks he is horse logging in NY State somewhere these days. Ross and I are both charter members of a group that was once called the Progressive Forester’s Network, then the Forest Stewards Guild and now is called the Forest Guild. Great group, just hard to be a member of every group in the country, even the good ones.

Sounds like you have a neat program going on and we wish you lots of luck and are glad to have you on the site. Thanks for sharing your approach to value adding wood and using your animals to work in the forest. Glad to have you on the DAP forum. Keep up the good work.

We have had apprentices come from Sterling to serve internships with us here in Virginia and have really enjoyed them. This school does attract some original thinkers and good workers. One of our recent apprentices was a student there. We have also worked with lots of folks from Paul Smith’s College in NY State.

[Carl Russell]

Yes we have had some good experiences with folks from the current program there, also.

Just for those who may care, David Birdsall is not horse logging, but is an Owner/instructor for Northeast Woodland Training, a “Game Of Logging” education provider in New Hampshire ( http://www.woodlandtraining.com/ ).
David lives in SW Vermont, and runs his families remote summer camp in the Adirondacks, as well as leading wilderness treks in Alaska from time to time.

Carl

[lancek]

Hey guys’
yes Ross was one of the staff there at that time but the gentelman that ran the horse program was a differant guy! I cant quit recall his name but I talked to his brother back in 2000 he runs a wood working company in montpeiler Vt, and he said that he had surcumed to cancer!
I think I still have picture of Ross with a Ice beard and mustash on our winter camping hike, that we had to take back then! I still make my kids grown everytime I tell the story of camping out in 30 below weather!

[Gabe Ayers]

Amazing networking or is this just guys gossiping? Either one is OK with me. This is a great bunch of folks that know allot of other great folks.

There are some real hands in New England.

[aaronlee]

Hi all,
I just spent the day with David Birdsall. I did the GOL level 3 course in Bristol VT. He is a really good guy and a good instructor, I learned a lot. Just to re-hash what Jason and others have said, but from the newbee perspective.

Taking a chainsaw training course is key to getting a good start at felling trees. I took level 1 three years ago at Carl’s place and it helped me so much in the woods after that. There are so many things going on in the woods, that having someone who really knows how to run the saw and can explain it so it makes sense is awesome. If you haven’t grown up with a saw in your hands or even if you have, learning how to safely evaulate situations that could be really dangerous is super helpful. What I mean by that is if you’re new to felling trees than you might not know all the things out there that can hurt you.

Getting the tree on the ground is half the battle, once the tree hits the ground there are a whole new set of problems to solve. These are things you learn through experience, and having someone with a lot of experience to show what’s going on will really help you climb the ladder to a safer place faster.

I love dropping trees and using the GOL technique is the only way I know how, and I’m not sure I would like it as much doing it the with the older methods. Having the ability to walk away from a tree that you have cut into and left standing to think things over a bit is really nice.

With all that said, after all the skidder and harvester talk subsided yesterday I was able to plug animal traction as a viable power source in foresty, and the DAP community as a place to learn and ask questions about it. I talked up the field days being held as a place to actually see too.

Thanks for reading, Aaron

[Robert MoonShadow]

Aaronlee’s last post here got me to thinking about chainsaw courses. However, I haven’t been able to find any around here (because, evidently no one NEEDS it, being as how everybody hereabouts were born with chainsaws in their hands). After several years of harvesting & selling firewood, I know just enough to know that I don’t have safe techniques; just what I’ve been able to figure out on my own, and from an occasional opportunity to see someone else drop trees. So, I personally have a need for a good safety and technique video or dvd that can be played on my computer… if anyone puts one out? I tried checking out Jason’s & Carl’s websites to see what they have to offer, but with dial-up, it takes so long to even change pages here, much less unfamiliar sites. Can someone give me a heads up on what’s available, including discription & price?

[Gabe Ayers]

Arrgh,

The Chronicles of the Biological Woodsmen has a pretty good felling demonstration on it done by Chad Vogel, filmed by Silas Haggerty ) – Pete’s son. It is also very amusing to me to watch this video, given the relationship those two young men have had for several years. We sell them for $20.00, but (disclaimer) it is in no way a complete training video and wasn’t intended to be such. It is a demonstration, but one can watch it over and over and get the four cut method. There are other interesting viewings on this DVD.

Chad is on the cover of the Bailey’s Forestry Supply 2009 Master Catalog out at the moment. You can get one free by calling 1-800-322-4539, tell’ them the horselogger sent you or go to http://www.baileysonline.com

We also have about a 10 minute demonstration on the next segment coming out on Rural Heritage show on RFD-TV, but I don’t know when that will air. I hope to let the DAP folks know as soon as Joe Mischka lets me know.

Do a search on GOL in Idaho and see.

I met a fellow once from Moscow, Idaho that had some horses and logged on public land a bit. His name was Larry (Lawrence) and that is all I can remember. I will look back in some of my old stuff and see. Larry was not in good health but was a great fellow and was working hard to do the right thing in the woods and trained lots of folks to work horses. Funny I can remember his face and accent, but have forgotten his last name. He and I attended a sponsored week in Washington through a group called the National Network of Forest Practitioners and presented our views to USFS folks. We were the only people there with callouses on our hands – if you know what I mean. I will find his name for you Pirate Farmer, so you can connect with him – if he is still around.

Take the time to inform yourself about chainsaw safety and skills, it will help you enjoy your work even more, and honestly we all do this because we like it, certainly not the money….

Let me know what you think through PM at the address below.

Thanks for posting Aaron. Level four is as far as I got too.

Salute,

[aaronlee]

Robert,

According to the GOL people the US forest service has done a bang up job keeping Game of Logging out of the western part of the country. I did a goggle search and found a course that happend last year in Wa.

In another post on here there is link to (http://www.TimberGrowers.com) for a fellow in Wi. If you go to the site and scroll down past all the beautiful flooring you will find a book dvd section on directional felling. I have not seen these dvd’s but people on this site have spoken highly of Mr. Birkemeier and there not very expensive.

Hope this helps.

Aaron

[lancek]

I have a prim example of paying attention to the safty procedures! Yesterday I was woorking in a very tight gully taking down a 30 inch white oak that was heavly brushed on all sides. I proceded to clear a excape path on the bottom of the gully going away from the cut I proceded to chip the deriction that I wanted the tree to fall and proceeded to bore the bowl because of the heavy lean, about half way through the cutt I heard the tree start to pop and then the tree exploded! at that point it was all men for them selfs I threw my saw away and started runing. If I had not made a excape trail I would have never got out of there on time, I recved quit a few bruises but no bad injuries but what a close call ! I have been loging 30 some years and that was the closeest call I ever had!

[OldKat]

@lancek 8139 wrote:

I have a prim example of paying attention to the safty procedures! Yesterday I was woorking in a very tight gully taking down a 30 inch white oak that was heavly brushed on all sides. I proceded to clear a excape path on the bottom of the gully going away from the cut I proceded to chip the deriction that I wanted the tree to fall and proceeded to bore the bowl because of the heavy lean, about half way through the cutt I heard the tree start to pop and then the tree exploded! at that point it was all men for them selfs I threw my saw away and started runing. If I had not made a excape trail I would have never got out of there on time, I recved quit a few bruises but no bad injuries but what a close call ! I have been loging 30 some years and that was the closeest call I ever had!

Close call man, glad you are okay.

I’m kind of like Robert; I know just enough about chainsaw usage to know that I DON’T KNOW enough to use one SAFELY. I do use one now and then, however, so I appreciate knowing about the videos.

I had a friend named Roger K. who worked for the local electric co-op as their “tree guy”; anytime a tree was in danger of getting into the power lines he was the one that was responsible for taking care of the situation. Sometimes this meant trimming the tree, other times taking it out. He did this job for probably 25 years and I am told he was VERY safety conscious, as well as very conscientious in general.

Probably 10 or 12 years ago he and I were visiting at our County Fair on a Saturday night. He mentioned that he was going the next day to help his brother-in-law take down a storm damaged tree in their front yard. I was shocked a couple of days later to learn that the tree didn’t fall as he had planned and it fell on him and killed him.

I guess you just can’t be too careful when you are doing that kind of work. Glad to know there are resources to help make sure situations like what happened to Roger don’t become too common. He left two now grown kids that were both early teenagers at the time. Not a good situation.

[Gabe Ayers]

Well if more deadly experiences reinforces the insistence of getting professional training then here are a couple more:

I had a great blacksmith a few years back. Meaning this fellow could hot shoe a draft horse, make ornamental metal work that was sculpture and always rode horses in all sorts of settings in his spare time. He was cutting a tree in his front yard one Saturday afternoon and it fell on him and killed him.
He left a teenage soon too. Stunning…. I would have gone down and cut Bill’s tree for him a thousand times rather than have that happen to a good, hard working man. But he just thought he knew what he was doing… that is why folks need to learn a professional technique. This technique is not one guys idea of how to do something, this is a proven, time tested and widely accepted correct way to do this dangerous work and still doesn’t guarantee absolute safety….

In Virginia we lose about 13-15 people in the logging industry annually. Last year 9 of them were hand felling timber…… not to be an alarmist about this – but if these warnings don’t get your attention about the seriousness of running a chainsaw….then I don’t know what else to write….

[CharlyBonifaz]

In Virginia we lose about 13-15 people in the logging industry annually

just because it happened last week:
friend of mine cut firewood, “will be done in an hour”, luckily his wife stayed around to stack it……
cut off most of his lower leg ’til the bone stopped the chain; thought he didn’t need his safety pants and shoes especially since he was using only his small chain saw and it was warm that day……

[lancek]

Yea it just takes a moments inatetion to get hurt real bad, And usaly it is the simpelest mistake that causes the most damage!
After I left caftsbury I went to work for a guy named ricky gooutsman { not sure fo the corect spelling of the name so sorry ahead of time if he or a reletive our is out there!} But anyway one of the things they did for fun was to see how close they could fall a tree to you and not hit you. This was a sign of a good cutter! I cringe at the thought of waht could of happend with what I know to day. But back then this was considered funny

[Author]

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