D-ring position

[Mark Cowdrey]

I rarely see photos that are taken perpendicular to the horse to accurately judge the position of the D-ring on a well adjusted harness. Does anyone have any comments on the position of the D-ring on these two horses? I sometimes think my front tugs are still an inch or so long. Other times I think they are OK.

Also what about point of draft. Or any other comments.

Thanks,

Mark

[DraftDriver]

Wow…I would love to see that set up in real life. How does it work compared to a normal set up harness and pulling? And working? I hope I am asking what I mean correctly. Does it put the pressure different since the way things are connected on it.

[Mark Cowdrey]

DD,

I’m not sure what you are asking. This is a D-ring harness. If you are not familiar with the style there are various threads on this site that discuss it as well as articles in SFJ & Rural Heritage. The benchmark article I would say is Les Barden’s video which is an in depth discussion & demonstration of it. Hope this helps. I believe the video is available from Les in Farmington, NH.

Mark

[grey]

Raise the “D” a bit, I’d say. Hard to tell exactly, since the photos are of the horses at rest. If, when the horses are working in draft, the hames and the short foretug are not at right angles to one another, adjust. As it is, in the photos you provided, looks more like 100 degrees rather than 90.

I watched Les Barden’s video the other day. What a great treatise on the D-ring harness. The definitive wag on the subject at this point.

[Carl Russell]

Front traces look good in length. I also agree the angle on the hames could be better. Raise the D. On the second photo, it is hard to tell, collar looks forward and a little low, probably at rest after stretching. I would also say to tighten the side straps too.

Carl

[Mark Cowdrey]

Thanks for your replies.

I raised the D’s today.

I find the whole issue of collars a mix of art & science, heavy on the art. That off horse (picture #2) is wearing a 24″. I tried a 23 on him tonight (w/o harness) with first a deerhair pad and then felt pad. Neither seemed big enough, too short. With no pad it was sloppy on the sides.

Doc Hamil has an interesting article on manipulating collar shapes in the new SFJ “Ask A Teamster”. Think I’ll review that & other collar info.

Carl if you can & are inclined to elaborate on “forward and a little low” I’d be interested.

Thanks again,

Mark

[Carl Russell]

Mark, I don’t know how big your horses are, but I have 23″ and 24″ collars on mine with deer hair sweat pads in them.[ATTACH]813.jpg” /> My off horse is 17 hands and possibly 1700 lbs.

From the picture it looks to me like the collar is forward at the top, and therefore is also down too low at the bottom. This can happen if the top straps from the britchen are too loose, and the horse will stretch, often just after stopping, its neck out which will cause the collar to move forward. Because of the positioning of th collar in the picture I really can’t determine the correct angle of draft.

It is really hard to evaluate a collar fit from a side view, but 24″ sounds a bit big. What happens is that then the hames are also too big for the horse, putting the point of draft too low. I usually go with a rule of thumb for positioning the front traces-hame size-collar size.

The collar should fit snug on the sides and a hand should be able to fit under the throat, when back tight against the shoulder(under load). Hames are made to fit certain size collars, but within that, they should fit so that the bottom of the trace bolt is about the distance of my hand spread out with thumb on the point of the shoulder, and my pinky(:o) touching the trace. This is a spread hand, not tight fingers together.

In the second picture the trace looks to be only a few inches above the point of the shoulder. The first seems a little higher, but is low too.

The more I look at the photos, the more it appears that the collars and hames are too big. The hames are adjusted to fit the collars, but that is bringing the point of draft too low, which is pulling the collars down, pitching the top of the collars forward.

I think you can see from my picture that when the point of draft is in the right location for the collar, it will pull the collar back against the shoulder, so the top will be back and the angle of the collar will match the angle of the shoulder.

I would try smaller collars, and again it is hard to tell, but it looks like your hames are maxxed out with these collars, so you may be able to use them just fine with smaller collars.

Really this is only soft advice, as I really cannot tell, not having the animals in front of me, seeing them move etc. I may be all wet.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Here’s another front view of collar/hame/trace fit-location…..on my horses.

[ATTACH]815.jpg” />

Make of it what you will.

Carl

[Mark Cowdrey]

Carl,

Nothing like fussing with something to give you an appreciation for what it looks like when it is right. Those two photos of your pair look like a well tuned rig.

I tried a 23″ inch collar in place of the 24″ on my off horse this afternoon in the barn, using a deerhair pad as before. I did not try him in it yet but just looking at it & feeling the fit with him just standing there I like what I see. We’ll see how he goes in it. The spread hand measure thing you do; it would be handy to have a photo from both the side & the front of you doing that (in your spare time, of course). Are you holding your hand vertically and eyeballing into the shoulder point? Or are you holding your hand at an angle (viewed from the front) and actually touching both shoulder point & harness?

I also re-watched the collar fitting segment of Doc Hamill’s Fundamentals II DVD tonight. It was helpful and consistent with your comments.

Thanks,

Mark

[Carl Russell]

I put my thumb ON the point of the shoulder, and reach up with my little finger extended. If I can just reach the trace it is in the right place. This is a rough estimate rule of thumb. The main thing is that the trace/hame/collar should be high enough so that the load sets the collar back into the appropriate place.

Carl

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