Fabricating Think Tank

[Iron Rose]

Have noticed that there are a lot of people out there that design and fabricate or modifiy needed equipment. My thought if there is a way to possibly add a site were we could exchange ideas, help with problems that we are experinceing, finding parts, Ect. I realize that to many sites it may not be a good thing , just thought I would throw the idea out there. Thanks for your time.

Iron Rose
Dan Rasmussen
SE MN

[Carl Russell]

Good idea Dan. Here it is.
Carl

[jac]

This is going to be a useful tool, as is the whole DAP network.. A few basic points that should be observed BEFORE any form of fabrication or restoration takes place…
1. SAFETY !!!.. Ear defenders, eye protection and especially if your working on a pre1960 machines be aware that lead based paint was in common use on old machines… so DONT breathe the dust if you’re grinding or sanding old paint. WEAR A MASK !!! Gloves.. sharp metal and hot steel takes no prisoners.. If you have to work under Gods workshop roof be extra sure to have a SAFETY TRIP switch between you and the power source.

2. Know your limitations. Sounds simple but its so easy to think “how hard can this be”.. till your in too deep. Use your computer to draw any brand new ideas you have. It works believe me. When you arrange your “cutting list” it pays dividends.. Remember.. measure twice cut once !!!. most steel stock holders dont charge much to supply your order pre cut to length.. least mine doesnt..

3. If dismantling.. write labels for everything.. Its so easy to tear a machine down, then with things like calving or seeding or the multitude of distractions that spring up when we live the kind of lives we live, you go back to your “project” and think.. “where the heck does this bit go”.

4. When arranging a square frame for example, dont just rely on the set square to check for squareness.. measure both diagonals.. they should be the same..

5. Be aware of the particular material you are welding.. Mild steel, which will be the most likely material, poses no problems.. However if that mild steel is GALVANISED and you weld or burn it for any length of time without adequate ventilation, you WILL get what we call over here “the galvy flu”.. and that is horrible..

6. Use clamps to help counter weld pull. If you run out of clamps tack a strap in place and remove later.. and tack on both sides all over the job once you are settled with the measurements. Measure again !!.Only then weld.. If making a square frame for example with 2″ box section, then quickly weld the internal verticals 1st. That way if it pulls..and it will pull.. you can alter the diagonal measurements BEFORE you start the top welds. do it the other way and the frame is set..

7.Use the workshop floor to draw a full size version of what you want. If its a hinged lever for example, use cardboard and drawing pins to duplicate the mechanism BEFORE you cut steel.

8. Drill all holes in brackets before its welded up. If hydraulic rams or bars that you cant be certain of their final position need to be fitted, then dont be afraid to drill a variety of holes, but try and keep them in a tidy pattern. Nothing worse than trying to drill holes in a bracket that you can only get to if you are upside down.

9. Check if your steel stock holder has a PROFILE BURNER.. if he has, then use it to make any brackets or intricate shapes in flat steel including any holes you want … draw what you want on paper, take it to them and they will transfer it to computer.. the time saved cutting and cleaning up can be used else where..

10. Enjoy

I know we have some professional fabricators on board and this was in no way aimed at you guys. I’m trying to help the guys that can weld but perhaps not professionally and could over look some of the safety issues and become unstuck.. To everyone.. DAP is a valuable tool that can really push animal traction forward. Use it. Ask and someone will have an answer. I personally have learned so much since finding this site. It can only get better.. Happy welding and dont forget the photos
John

[near horse]

Hey John,

Do you use a program to draw your “plans”? If so, which one and how difficult is it to get up to speed on using it?

[jac]

Hi Geoff.. Im afraid Im a bit backward when it comes to computers.. I use “Paint” in the Windows program. Nice and simple with straight lines, squares ,rectangles curves and circles. You can add words and alter the thickness of the lines.. even rub stuff out {I do that a lot:)}. There is a thing called “Cad Creations” but I dont have it, and having watched a friend who has, think i’ll stick with the “paint” for a while.. The hood of my forge has a lot of old chalk scribbles too..
John

[Iron Rose]

I usually roll all ,sorts of ideas around in my head when designing a project . When I have it sort of figured out then I will try to put it down on paper. The real trick is when I start to build it , then I usually figure it out as I go. That probably why my hair is getting thinner ,spend to much time scratching my head . Usually build things by the seat of my pants , then cutting it apart and redoing it till I’m satisfied. Can always see ways I could make it better.

I have been working on a three wheel fore cart with a three point hitch this winter. Almost done with it then got the bright idea of adding a grownd drive PTO. Still working on that part ,while thats a project for next winter. Problem is that I really don’t need a PTO (go figure).

Iron Rose
Dan Rasmussen
SE MN

[Marshall]

Right on John. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

[near horse]

A thought on helping keep parts/stuff organized when dismantling equipment – the stationary stores sell those magnet vinyl message boards (maybe 2ft x 3ft). Take one of these, add a little edge and use it as a flat surface to place small parts on. The magnetics hold most metal parts AND you can write what it is on the board next to the parts. When you’re finished, wipe it off and you’ve got a clean slate (so to speak).

[OldKat]

@near horse 16077 wrote:

A thought on helping keep parts/stuff organized when dismantling equipment – the stationary stores sell those magnet vinyl message boards (maybe 2ft x 3ft). Take one of these, add a little edge and use it as a flat surface to place small parts on. The magnetics hold most metal parts AND you can write what it is on the board next to the parts. When you’re finished, wipe it off and you’ve got a clean slate (so to speak).

A twist on what jac and nearhorse said is a process that I have used for years; when I disassemble anything I put the small parts, bolts, springs etc in small paper bags (like people use to use for lunch bags ) and I write where they go, how they are used, what part they attach to, etc directly on the bags. Sometimes I use clear plastic baggies instead and write the info on a small piece of yellow writing tablet and slip it in the baggy.

I have also recently started taking, or actually having my kid’s take, digital pictures of the equipment before it is taken apart and then print those (enlarged) pictures out and write notes directly on the drawings. Then when I get ready to reassemble, some XXX months later I DON’T HAVE TO RELY ON MY LESS THAN TRUSTWORTHY MEMORY!

Works for me. I think I’ll also adopt and adapt some of the ideas presented here. Good thread folks.

[Iron Rose]

I keep track of differant types and grades of steel in my rack with differant colors of spray paint. A spot of paint takes a lot of guess work when looking for a certain grade of steel.

[Donn Hewes]

A think tank should probably be breathable, but water proof. Flexible and able to with stand huge changes in temperature. Oh, I will just button it and get back in the hot tub!

[jac]

Can someone who knows, post the effects of quenching steel in various liquids.. oil ..water.. air cooling and any other neat stuff that can be done with steel and fire..
John

[Joshua Kingsley]

It really depends on the steel. Some like A2 tool steel are an air hardening steel where as a mild steel is often able to be case hardened in oil or in a carbon material such as ground up charcoal. Water can crystilize the grain structure of some types of steel and there for make it weaker. It all depends so the best advice I can give is check to see what type of steel you are using and ask the supplier if it can be quenched or hardened and what is the best method.
Joshua

[jac]

I suspect case hardening might be one proccess that we use a lot. Im thinking of eveners.. would the 3 points of contact benefit from the oil quench?? when I made mine I just let them cool in the air but would they be better heated up and plunged in oil ?? Have to say they arent showing any signs of wear yet.
John

[Joshua Kingsley]

Case hardening by heating to a bright redish hue and then quenching in oil will build up a small ( about .003 thick ) layer of hard coating. One benifit of doing this is that it is also a rust inhibitor. The other thing is that when the steel air cools it will also build up a really small layer of case hardening by drawing carbon out of the air.

When you think of case hardening or oil quenching think of the old time smiths. The really good stuff was often oil quenched and there for would stand up to the weather. The other thing is that when the steel is starting to patina or wear, you can coat it in a little bit of bees wax by rubbing the surface and wiping with a rag.

Joshua

[Author]

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