Fencing for horses

[Carl Russell]

Goddarn you guys. I was all set to just let you have this discussion without me, but no, I had to go and make some comment about how laxidaizical I am with my fencing.

I almost even made some comment about how this time of year, my horses stay behind a knee-high fence with virtually no charge, because of poor grounding due to snow.

On the way down the drive this morning to the barn, it became apparent that there were many hoof prints tracking up the fresh snow. Fifteen minutes, and a half a mile later I found them milling around by the neighbors horse barn.

Ben Canonica is logging here with his mare, and although they generally get along, I think my horses must have boxed her into the corner by the gate, and the only way she had to go was out.

Being approachable, haltering was no problem, and I was soon back at the barn doing my chores. But I am blaming the extra 45 minutes on you.:cool:

Carl

[dominiquer60]

Robert, I don’t know much about electricity either, but I used to live and work on a piece of ground that resembled a sand dune at times, Oakville fine sandy loam. We once had to irrigate in March just to get the peas to germinate. since I had to water the stock anyway, I would try to make the habit of watering the 6 foot ground rod as well, it seemed to work. I really like net fencing as well, I may take you up on the used roll offer. I had a neighbor that used net for everything, perimeter, cross fencing, sheep, goats, geese, cows, calves, bulls and a team of Belgians. I do think that a little of it had to do with his good luck and not his good management. We use poultry net for the hens, it take some training to get them to stay in, but once they are trained we don’t bother with the electric, they go in at night and the only day time predator is the hawk, no amount of fence juice is keeping her out.

Erika

[near horse]

To test it, I wore only a pair of cut-offs, hooked the system to a new & fully charged battery, and soaked the ground & layed down on the mud.

Robert – Oh, THAT’S what happened to you:). Just kiddin’. As Carl mentions a good charger (or charge) is THE key. Over time, an uncharged fence will end up w/ animals getting out.

We haven’t had much luck w/ electric netting. It’s a real bear to get the posts into the ground when it’s dried to cement consistancy.

I would like to hear about how you all do your corner posts on your permanent boundary fence. RR ties are common out here (not for the weak of back).

[Robert MoonShadow]

Geoff ~ You’re trying to hard! With the netting, you don’t need a tight fence – just tight enough to stand up pretty much straight. Take a hammer & tap the post in – angle it outwards just a bit, especially around bends & corners (use curves instead of corners, if possible) = the tension will pull it up straight. The steel tip is only 3 or 4 inches long, anyways. It works on goats, and as the old timers around here like to say; it takes a mighty good fence to starve a goat or mule. As for corners on regular fences; around here, with all the rocky soil, they build a right-angled tripod with a bottom to it… pile the biggest rocks you can lift or roll up onto the platform (usually ground level or up to 3″ above ground). The tripod’s 2 secondary (angled) legs are at right angles to each other, one parrelling the line of fence. If needed, a double-tripod arrangement, with angled brace legs in both directions of travel, and another opposing one direction. The only other way to put a fence post down in these rocks is to rock-drill a hole for each one & cement it in. Hope that’s understandable, because it hurt my brain just trying to describe it.

[dominiquer60]

Geoff- I used to work on a sheep farm and we used net fencing all year round. The trick in the winter is that we used a cordless drill to make a pilot hole in the ice and/or frozen ground, it worked well until we wanted to move the fence, then it just took some finesse or a bucket of hot water to get the little stakes out. We liked to keep our net fairly tight and round the corners like Robert mentioned. I don’t know if using a cordless drill in your hard ground would work, but it is something to consider if you ever wanted to try net fence again.

Erika

[Robert MoonShadow]

Erika ~ If you decide you want the netting, just let me know – same goes for anyone else – although I don’t know how much it’ll cost to ship it; but it still seems like it’d be a money saver.

[Plowboy]

I have seen three instances with draft horses where high tensile fence did a number on them. Lucky the first two survived but have permanent scars. The third a Percheron stud colt unfortunately had to be put down because the damage to his leg was unrepairable.
I’m afraid I’m going to step in a hornets nest right now. We use primarily barbed wire around here. At my Dad’s we use a strand of electric along with it on the road side because he lives on a State road. Our horses never get out. We use 3 strands in wooded and brushy areas and 4 on road and meadow sides. The thing about barbed wire is it needs to be used properly. Some folks are against it claim it is awful because it really does some damage if it gets wrapped around their leg. It is impossible for this to happen if the wires are tight. We have never had more than a scratch on any of our horses from barbed wire. Being on a busy road it would be risky to depend solely on electric. I have to build some new fence on 20 acres of my farm. Typically we use 6ft Locust posts but after giving it some thought I am going to cut some 7ft. 4 good strands of barbed wire with a strand of electric on top to prevent reaching and stretching wires. We drive our posts each year to tighten them up after the frost goes out so they get a little shorter each year. I may have to stand on a bucket to drive the 7 footers but I think the height will be beneficial. We might start cutting posts this week. I have a customer that is going to pay us to cut down some locust trees! I would like to put up some board fence on my farm for astetic reasons around the house and barns. 5×5 posts and 5/4 planks works good out of Larch (Tamarack). I’m not sure how the Larch will last in the ground. I built a fence out of it at my Day job 3 years ago so maybe I’ll wait and see how long theirs lasts.

[Howie]

A few years ago the Amish here sold several semi loads of 5×5 posts to an outfit in Florida. They said it would last just as long as the treated would.

[Plowboy]

Thanks Howie that’s good to know. We built a wagon out of Larch 16 years ago and put Linseed oil on it twice, it has never been inside and is still solid. We started using it on kicker hay wagons now that the smaller mills aren’t handling white oak as much anymore.

[OldKat]

@near horse 6162 wrote:

Robert – Oh, THAT’S what happened to you:). Just kiddin’. As Carl mentions a good charger (or charge) is THE key. Over time, an uncharged fence will end up w/ animals getting out.

We haven’t had much luck w/ electric netting. It’s a real bear to get the posts into the ground when it’s dried to cement consistancy.

I would like to hear about how you all do your corner posts on your permanent boundary fence. RR ties are common out here (not for the weak of back).

Are metal “T” posts commonly used in other parts of the country? I know they are common in the south, but not so sure elsewhere. Funny, I’ve been in almost every part of this great land; just never noticed the fencing I guess.

Anyway, if you use “T” posts in your area there is great design for turning two T posts into a semi-permanent corner post assembly with a brace called a Push-A-Post (also made from 2 T posts). Works great for electric fence, and probably could be used for up to a three wire barbed wire fence or a 36 to 40 inch net fence with or without a barb wire on top. This was a commercially available product at one time, but not so sure it is being manufactured anymore. I know that the owner of the company died a year or so ago. However, there is no law against making a product that is copyrighted if you are doing so for your own use. Also, they are easy to make if you can weld. DO NOT MAKE SOME UP AND SELL THEM, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL IF THE COPYRIGHT IS STILL IN EFFECT.

Essentially, at the end of a fence line you drive T post with the face flange (the top of the T) facing back toward the fence line you are installing, then you drive one facing the opposite direction right beside the first. The bottom flanges of the two T posts are essentially side by side. The first T post is driven deeper, leaving only about 36 to 40″ above the ground. The other T post is driven to standard fence height.

The Push-A-Post is made from one T post that is cut down to probably 48″ in length with a small piece of pipe, maybe 2 &1/2 inches in diameter welded on the end, this slips over the two T posts in the fence line. This is the base of the assembly and the face flange goes face down, running the same way as the fence. Toward the other end of the base another T post is bolted through the flange to form a brace of about 45 degrees, but the angle can be adjusted as needed since the bolt is not snugged down tight. On the other end of the brace piece is a small piece of pipe, maybe 1/4″ to 3/8″ in diameter and about an inch long welded to the end of the T post. A bolt with a piece of plate steel cut into an “L” and maybe 1/4″ thick is welded to the bolt & the whole thing (bolt & metal L) pivots in the small piece of pipe. This becomes a latch that hooks over the little raised projections that run down the face of the T post. (I’ve only ever heard these called “tits”, but that is probably NOT what they are really called!).

Anyway, once you have a bunch of these made up you can build a corner assembly in probably 5 to 10 minutes and can take them back down nearly as fast.

I know that this is not enough to go on, but if anyone is interested I can get exact dimensions and maybe even post some pictures of how they are built. I probably have 40 or 50 of these made up and the only time I have ever had one fail is when the area where the fence was built flooded and stayed under water for about 2 months. Finally the ground became so saturated that the high tensile wire just pulled the T posts completely out of the ground, brace assembly and all.

[Ronnie Tucker]

a little confused sounds interesting pictures would help ronnie tucker tn logger

[OldKat]

Ronnie,

Unfortunately I am better at welding and fence building than I am at digital cameras and posting to websites. Tomorrow I will be at the property where I use the most of them, if I can A) find my digital camera & B) figure out how to use it again, I will take some pictures and then C) see if someone on this site can tell me how to post them! I tried to check out the Push-A-Post website, but it no longer works so they must be defunct.

Great concept though. I’ll do what I can to get some pictures & dimensions up.

[jen judkins]

@OldKat 6795 wrote:

Essentially, at the end of a fence line you drive T post with the face flange (the top of the T) facing back toward the fence line you are installing, then you drive one facing the opposite direction right beside the first. The bottom flanges of the two T posts are essentially side by side. The first T post is driven deeper, leaving only about 36 to 40″ above the ground. The other T post is driven to standard fence height.

The Push-A-Post is made from one T post that is cut down to probably 48″ in length with a small piece of pipe, maybe 2 &1/2 inches in diameter welded on the end, this slips over the two T posts in the fence line. This is the base of the assembly and the face flange goes face down, running the same way as the fence. Toward the other end of the base another T post is bolted through the flange to form a brace of about 45 degrees, but the angle can be adjusted as needed since the bolt is not snugged down tight. On the other end of the brace piece is a small piece of pipe, maybe 1/4″ to 3/8″ in diameter and about an inch long welded to the end of the T post. A bolt with a piece of plate steel cut into an “L” and maybe 1/4″ thick is welded to the bolt & the whole thing (bolt & metal L) pivots in the small piece of pipe. This becomes a latch that hooks over the little raised projections that run down the face of the T post. (I’ve only ever heard these called “tits”, but that is probably NOT what they are really called!).

Anyway, once you have a bunch of these made up you can build a corner assembly in probably 5 to 10 minutes and can take them back down nearly as fast.

I know that this is not enough to go on, but if anyone is interested I can get exact dimensions and maybe even post some pictures of how they are built. I probably have 40 or 50 of these made up and the only time I have ever had one fail is when the area where the fence was built flooded and stayed under water for about 2 months. Finally the ground became so saturated that the high tensile wire just pulled the T posts completely out of the ground, brace assembly and all.

Oldkat, I would like to see pictures, please. I have been offered a 5 acre old hayfield for grazing this summer about 4 miles from my place. I need to install fencing, but it needs to be temporary. I’ve heard about the ‘T-post’ corner brace, but have no idea how it works. I think I can get my sister to do the welding, if I need.

The field is roughly square and has woods and a neighboring farms perimeter fence on two sides. I think I can get by with a single strand in these areas. The concerning areas are the road frontage (luckily this is a dead end, very low traffic road) and there is a utility line that runs out from one corner. I know how horse love those straightaways. Problem is that it runs right into I-89 after about a 1/2 mile:eek:…. so I’m gonna have to do at least two strands in these areas. This will just be for the big horses (no minis) and they are all trained to electric fencing.

Any thought or ideas are welcome.

[jen judkins]

Is this what you are talking about? I thought the diagram was confusing. Looks like you need more than one kit to make a corner.

http://fenceandfarm.com/item_213/CORNER-BRACE-KIT.htm

[OldKat]

@jenjudkins 7540 wrote:

Is this what you are talking about? I thought the diagram was confusing. Looks like you need more than one kit to make a corner.

http://fenceandfarm.com/item_213/CORNER-BRACE-KIT.htm

No , that is a little different approach. But your post did remind me that I mis-spoke. To make a corner you need two (2) push-a-posts, not one. I seldom do it that way, because I usually take the opportunity to put a gap in the corner so I usually don’t have a regular corner.

I haven’t forgotten about taking a picture and posting it, I just haven’t gotten around to it. Someone will have to ‘splain to me how to post to the site, as I have never posted a picture of ANYTHING on ANY site. Backward, aren’t I?

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