First Logs

[Rick Alger]

I ran a 440 back in the seventies. Sometimes two-man crew sometimes alone. A ten-wheeler load a day was a respectable average for a two-man crew back then. Mostly 4-foot wood.

Sounds like you’ve got this job well in hand.

Hardwood does go much faster than softwood. And marked wood slows things way down as does cutting out the logs and shortening lengths to avoid boll scarring.

I agree that having more workers could complicate things. But it could also help move wood more efficiently over distance while retaining the advantages of cutting and skidding with horses. A two man horse crew with a very short twitch say 200ft can produce an optimal amount of wood, say 8 cords. ( It would be hard to bury a horse at this distance) But when the distance increases, the productivity drops. So in comes the forwarder. But to keep the forwarder operating efficiently, you need more than eight cords a day. Thus in my scenario there would be two crews producing what would be a tractor trailer load a day. That volume hopefully would produce enough return to cover everyone fairly. It lets the horseloggers do what they do best, and the forwarder do what it does best. Basically combining efficiencies.

On the other hand I can see your scenario working too. No personnel issues. The question is can you move enough low-value stuff this way to cover expenses, maintain the tractor and keep a trucker on your leash?

[Kevin Cunningham]

O yeah see that puddle in front of them, they went around it.

So as long as it wasn’t dangerous for them to go around it; it makes sense, because it would have been harder to pull the log through the mud. I think that is smart, my tractor doesn’t think like that and it gets stuck in the mud all the time. Still no puddle for me to walk though. I am starting to wonder about this weather, like I said I thought I lived in a rainforest, but still no rain.

I am particulary interested on how to add value to low value logging. Like a lot of y’all I live in timber country but our trees are huge in comparison. Even second or third growth redwood dwarfs anything I have seen posted here. I have seen old pictures of ox logging operations that used teams of 18 or more oxen. We are talking big trees.

There are parts of the county were thinning “dog hair” fir stands could be a viable animal powered logging operation at least in the physical scope of it. But there is no value in small dimensional fir logs. Although based on the grain pattern I am getting on store bought 2×4’s I would say that they are coming out of smaller and smaller trees.

I keep tossing around ideas in my mind for combined log and mill operations (portable band saw), or high value (feel good) firewood, or stick furniture, or something? Whatever it will be I will have to do it on my own, as there is no mill around here that will take logs shorter the 42 feet long.

[Vicki]

That’s good work for your steers! It is a milestone you can take pride in. Nice photo.

[Baystatetom]

The low grade thing is something I have wrestled with for a long time in my head. I hope my background as a consulting forester will be a asset. If a lot is not well suited for draft animals due to topography, $ constraints, or skid length, I’ll just put it to bid for the machine guys like I always have. On the other hand over the past 15 years I have done a lot of improvement cuts, those properties should be looking pretty good now. I also have a chase circular mill that I am putting together. It will produce at least double the production of one of those portable band mills. I hope to be a supplier of rough sawn lumber for my community. Turning that hemlock and pine into boards and 2Xs should ad value to my product. To bad green certification doesn’t work for the little guy.
One more year, the steers will be bigger and stronger, and the mill will be fully operational.
~Tom
And yeah Rick I worry some trees will be to big here as well. I have seen some red oak pushing 30″ DBH, a 12′ log off them has got to be heavy. Steel shod sled in the winter I guess.

[mitchmaine]

Big wood here in maine would be one or two trees to the hitch. No room for the horse there. When the wood starts getting smaller, say 10 – 12” on the stump, and its pulp and firewood, a good chopper working alone with a skidder should be able to cut a truckload a day. Spruce and fir might pose a challenge but its do-able. Hiring a chopper could double the output or at least make a good dent in the second load.so, the chopper pays his own way. But he’s only human and cutting two truckloads comes with its share of troubles like trees setback, or lodged, and so on. So, enter the horse. Here’s where I think the horse earns his keep. If the skidder operator has to stop and run out a full cable through brush and so on, and pull up his hitch, and either limb, or wait for the chopper to finish limbing the lodged trees, etc. it means lost time. If the horse can pull down the lodged tree and bunch the wood away from the cut so the chopper is free to lay down his wood, and the skidder operator can swing around and hook up a full clean hitch, all bunched and limbed, it means an extra couple hitches a day, and the horse is paying his way as well. That’s the way I see it. If we think what I just said is correct, then we have to believe that the whole thing hinges now on the trucker keeping the landing clear. Anyone waiting is going to mess up the works, and the horse is the first to go. Balance is key.
Tom, any man or woman who could cut, limb and bunch a trailer load of spruce and fir in a day, and show up the next morning would win my everlasting admiration. I have the horse and the wood if there are any takers.

[Baystatetom]

I would like to think I am more experienced with a a chainsaw and/or real world application of forestry then most Consulting Foresters, however I would never mean to imply that I am a expert chopper. Every logger I work with is way better then me. I am just happy to have had the last couple of winters with a good logger who can keep an eye on me.
~Tom

[mitchmaine]

didn’t mean you,tom. you made a comment before on not needing the chopper, leaving a man,saw and horse keeping up with a skidder, in small wood, and that seems superhuman to me. nothing personal there, sorry.

[Baystatetom]

Skidder was mudded out today, wish it wasn’t a uphill skid I would have brought the bulls.
~Tom

[Baystatetom]

With the idea that skidding will be easier now that we have a snow cover I just cut the biggest tree I will have pulled with the steers so far. A hemlock with about 300 bdft in it. Of course I was trying to be selective and leave the small hardwoods to grow, and I missed the hole I was aiming for and hung the tree up. What a pain in the rear. Took 2 hours to get it down. Guess being an expert directional feller is prerequisite draft logging 🙂

[Tim Harrigan]

Tom, that is just a good opportunity to think about how you should have done it and plan how you will to do it next time.:rolleyes:

[LStone]

I make a lot of mistakes, reassessing and second or third attempts. Not just with the bigguns’ but in my life in general. Part of not being perfect I guess. Beauty of making them with hosses is that I am mostly always alone, so mistakes can only be between me the hosses and my maker if I choose.

[Baystatetom]

Your right Tim. Every time I go out I get a little better. And I don’t worry about admitting to hanging up a tree every now and then. I see professional loggers, and good ones at that, do it all the time. The difference is they just put a cable on it and rev up the diesel. I came across a logger one time with his saw pinched in a top. He says “dam that only happens when somebody is watching”. I told him look at it the other way be glad I was there to help get it out.
~Tom

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