Ground Skidding Firewood

[Anonymous]

I guess I have been bitten by the video bug, so here is my directorial debut.:D Harley is one of two 3-yr olds that I bought as yearlings. We are all learning together, so I have been working with them single for now. The wood was from a top that blew out of a maple this fall, and this is one of the first times Harley has worked in the woods. Please feel free to make suggestions, as I said we are both very green.

[video=youtube_share;UnAxAqjpG3I]http://youtu.be/UnAxAqjpG3I[/video]

[Carl Russell]

Nice job John….. Geez can’t you calm that horse down????
Very cool, Carl

[Anonymous]

Thanks Carl. Marin likes to tease me that Harley’s favorite thing to do is not move. 🙂 Which in many cases I am not complaining. He is honest though and has always done what I have asked of him, and always with just the right amount of energy usage. lol

[Does’ Leap]

@Hopewell Farm 30694 wrote:

Please feel free to make suggestions, as I said we are both very green.

[video=youtube_share;UnAxAqjpG3I]http://youtu.be/UnAxAqjpG3I[/video]

John, you and your horse look great. I’ll throw the following out as a comment about what works for me rather than a suggestion and perhaps others can chime on what they do: I am a big believer in buckling my lines together (or tying if you don’t have a buckle). I think this is especially important while ground skidding. I generally walk close to my horse and let the lines slip through my hands when I need to stop or slow down if it isn’t a good place for the horse to stop or slow. I might only have 10′ of lines to let out, but that can make a difference in the comfort and effectiveness of the horse. There have been several times where the terrain was especially challenging that I spooled out line only to be saved by the buckle. If my lines hadn’t been buckled I would have lost them.

As an aside, all my lines are 3/4″ beta (a tip from this site) with male ends (in other words, no buckle). I had several double-buckles made up that I use to buckle the lines together. The advantage of this is that I can I can slip cross-checks off and on to make single, double, or three abreast lines. All my lines are color-coordinated (another tip from this site) – left lines are brown and all right lines are black.

George

[Anonymous]

He is a nice working horse. There are some days I wish mine were that calm. One thing I would caution you about is it looked like one piece of the tree was around 8 feet. Its not that ground skidding eights or small tens is wronge, but if the log fetches up on a stump or rock its possible for the wood to either upend or bounce sideways striking the teamster or horse. I’m guessing your guy would stop before that happened and wait for you to tell him what to do. When hauling eights and tens we use a small sled called a go-devil its just a little safer.

Happy logging

Tristan

[Donn Hewes]

I think both you and the horse look like you have been working together a long time. There are probably a lot of different ways to hook a log but one method I like frees both of my hands to place the chain. I drive the horse (or team) nose in to any log I want to pull. I put their noses very close to the butt of the log while they are learning the system. That way I can reach up and steady them if they think of moving. Once I stop, I pick up the chain and leave the lines on the horses hames as I walk by. For a first time horse I will even pull a few inches of line through the hames ring so it will hang down where I can reach it easily. Now I stand at the horses head to fix the chain, while they wait. Once the chain is ready,I go back to the evener picking up the lines as I go(once again you teach them to stand still as you move). With the evener in one hand and lines in the other, turn the horse and back up to the log. Then you just have to put the lines in your lap while you hook the chain. Find your safe place to start the log and ask them to go.

I also prefer my lines tied together. The down side is stepping in a loop, for example. But if you drop one and they are tied together you will recover much easier than you will with them loose.

I also agree with Carl, not much benefit to being close to the horse or in front of the log. Better to slide back where you can see the horse evener and log.

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 30714 wrote:

….. I am a big believer in buckling my lines together (or tying if you don’t have a buckle). I think this is especially important while ground skidding. I generally walk close to my horse and let the lines slip through my hands when I need to stop or slow down if it isn’t a good place for the horse to stop or slow. I might only have 10′ of lines to let out, but that can make a difference in the comfort and effectiveness of the horse. There have been several times where the terrain was especially challenging that I spooled out line only to be saved by the buckle. If my lines hadn’t been buckled I would have lost them.
…..

Conversely, I never tie my lines together. I will often step off to the side and let lines slide through my hands so that I don’t have to move my feet. When I do that I do not want any loop getting caught on branches etc.

Also I use long lines and stand at least 10 feet away from the horse, and often I am back enough to see log, evener, and horse conveniently. The farther away the safer.

I never worry about dropping my lines because my horses are conditioned to stop on a slack line, so there are times when I may actually drop the lines and say whoa. Which is why when Marin teases you about the horse standing still, you can tell her you taught him that on purpose ;).

One other point I might make is that if you stop your horse facing the log when you are digging under the log to hitch your choker, you may find it easier as you don’t have to hold lines etc..Then when you turn the horse around to hook, you will have hands enough.

I’m with Tristan….:rolleyes:, it is nice to watch calmly walking horses like yours and George’s. Thanks both of you for sharing the latest videos. That capability of this site represents a great educational opportunity for all of us. Maybe we can put together some clips from next weekend???

Carl

[ShireLover]

To ask a stupid question. Where is the video?

[Anonymous]

Thank you to all who commented, great information from everyone.

I did have the logs a little shorter than I would have liked but I was trying to not ask to much of Harley. But Tristan’s comment is definately valid. The more I learn, it is the subtleties of were to stand, ways to hook, what to do with the lines,etc that are most valuable and hardest to learn without speaking to or observing experienced teamsters.

Carl, I am planning to be at the event next weekend on Saturday. I will try to remember my video camera.

Shirelover, you should be able to click on the picture in the first post and the video will start.

[ShireLover]

I don’t see a picture. I will try a different browser.

[ShireLover]

It was a browser issue.

Nice video. To my green eye you guys looked like pros. Your horse looks a lot like my Shire and I can’t wait until she can do that good.

Looks mighty cold to a southern boy 🙂

[sickle hocks]

Thanks so much for posting video, it’s really helpful.

I noticed Hopewell Farm’s trace carriers are very long…is that standard for log skidding work? Mine are set more at gaskin height now. I am doing a lot of ground driving and have a nagging concern that my traces are too short and I will have a heel strike the evener. Perhaps dropping the trace carrier would improve the geometry???? I can imagine my horses stepping a foot through it though, at this stage…

(right now we are dragging a post off the hames, dragging both traces on the ground, or dragging the evener just hooked at one end to one of the traces….we have driven two times with the evener hooked to both traces and a friend pulling back on a rope attached to the evener…when my friend allowed the evener to drop down to the ground it seemed way too close to the heels…)

thanks..

[Anonymous]

@sickle hocks 30759 wrote:

I noticed Hopewell Farm’s trace carriers are very long…is that standard for log skidding work? Mine are set more at gaskin height now. I am doing a lot of ground driving and have a nagging concern that my traces are too short and I will have a heel strike the evener. Perhaps dropping the trace carrier would improve the geometry???? I can imagine my horses stepping a foot through it though, at this stage…

I would be interested to hear what Carl and Donn had to say on this subject as well. I read an article in the last small farmers journal about the length of the lazy straps and that most lazy straps on new harnesses are a sufficient length for use on implements, but may be too short for ground skidding. Essentially the straps hold the traces “up” and can potentially put pressure on the hip drops causing the horse to be balky when pulling heavier loads. I may have gone to far in the other direction but as I had tension on the traces the current length seemed to be about right. But looking at the video again the straps now seem a little too long?

[mitchmaine]

hey john, true twitch harness usually has a jack saddle but no back straps, britchin or spider. the horse stays inside the traces easily and its no job to correct. after a steady diet of twitching wood, all that light harness gets stove up no matter what, especially if a lazy strap is to tight. nothing should interfere with the traceline from the load to the hames. letting one side of the singletree go while your driving free of a load is one way of solving the heel striking. carrying it is another but thats a pain. adding heel chain might do it, but i always thought the closer the horse is to the butt of that twitch, the easier it is on the horse to pull. good luck out there, and nice horse.
mitch

[Mark Cowdrey]

John,
I work similar to what Mitch describes.
After I unhitch the load I unhitch one end of the whiffletree. My trace “clips” on the top of the britchen are double-end snaps. Since am right handed, I unclip the right one from the top of the britchen & clip it onto the ring that joins the right end of the britchen & the side strap. It is then at a convenient ht for me to clip the right trace at the end of the trace leather after I unhook it from the whiffle tree, while I am still bent over. It is also more convenient for me to reach when I am making the hitch. My horse then drags the whifflle tree & chain back to the woods by the left trace only. It is usually possible, with some forethought, to set him up on the next load with a tight Haw turn at the log hitch point so he is walking around the whiffle tree & chain rather than it dragging against him. It could just as well be done “mirror image” if someone preferred.
Clear as mud?
I also do not tie my lines together & use a keyhole grab, which I find gives a shorter hitch & does not snag. As practical as brown & black line combo might be, I just can’t get my head around it aesthetically. Probably bite me in the ass some day.

Nice quiet horse. Good to see you out here.
Mark

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