Ground Skidding Firewood

[Carl Russell]

I set the lazy straps so that the loop is at the most likely point where the trace straightens out when pulling a stem. In the video you can see that point once the traces tighten. It doesn’t matter how you set it up, your horse will always find some way to step over the traces, and then you will have another opportunity to communicate with him. They learn to step in and out of the traces.

I find that for the majority of wood I ground skid, I just set the evener close enough for easy full strides without heel strike…… and leave it like that……. a quick step on the chain can make the whiffletree “jump” if need to clear a stump etc.,…… or sometimes I will stand and ride on the whiffletree when feeling lazy (and stupid :confused:)……

Carl

[jen judkins]

I don’t have much to add about the actual skidding…learned most of what I know from those who have posted here at one time or another. The one thing I would like to add is in regard to the lines. I got this tip from someone along the line and forget who. I had my lines made different colors, one black and one brown. The black is always on the left and the brown is always on the right, so if I have to pick up the lines in a hurry, I know which one is which. I do not buckle them. They are also abit longer than typical cart reins, though I forget exactly how long they are.

Beautiful horse…

[Donn Hewes]

You definitely can find harnesses where the lazy strap (trace carrier) is too short for some ground skidding. Especially with a tall horse. Just look at the horse while it is under load and see if the tug is bending at that point. If it is the strap is too short. It is good to call them a lazy strap because they shouldn’t be doing anything when the horse is working. After a few years with teams Most folks won’t need the two colors of lines, but I have seen many beginners that would have found that helpful. Black and brown doesn’t seem like much of a distinction to me. I think you need red and green. Just kidding.

When I explain to some one why my lines are tied together I all ways point out the down side, and the alternative. I think either method has it’s merits, but after a few years with lines tied together going with out would be like going out with out a belt on my pants. Just have to go back and get one, it doesn’t feel right.

It goes with out saying that regardless of how you hook the heal chain for length, don’t leave it hitting the horse on the way back to the woods.

[Carl Russell]

@Mark Cowdrey 30769 wrote:

John,
….. As practical as brown & black line combo might be, I just can’t get my head around it aesthetically. ….

I would never remember which color went where, and I would still have to look up to make sure they weren’t twisted anyway. I just look up at the horse when gathering lines, and I can quickly see/feel which line goes where.

Carl

[Anonymous]

One other point to clarify, based on earlier posts it is safer to be positioned farther back, rather than next to the horse when skidding? Is that correct? This allows you to see the whole picture (horse, single tree, and log) while in motion.

[Scott G]

You have to love a horse that is that quiet in the woods! I think you can safely lay the lines down while you’re setting your choker…:)

Trace carriers only exist on harness with a britchen so that points out there importance; very little except for convenience. Ideal is a 90 degree angle off the collar/hames to your point of draft. With the d-ring you folks use it would seem to be less of an issue. If you want to see where the tugs normally would hang take them out of the trace carriers and see where they ride under load. Naturally they will rise and fall but you’ll get a good idea of where they should hang out.

I use to tie my lines together, but no more. It’s just too easy to get hung up on stuff in the woods while ground skidding and I’m constantly handling/readjusting my lines anyway. Just doesn’t feel “right” anymore…

The best place to be while ground skidding is at minimum behind the point of hitch on the singletree and preferably further back then that. You should be in a position where you can see the “big picture” to correct any potential issues and keep yourself out of the bite. I use 18′ lines when I’m ground skidding single.

It makes me smile because I know you are having a blast out there. 🙂 It also makes me smile because you have just about as perfect a temperament horse as you could ask for when starting to work in the woods.

I look forward to meeting you this weekend in Athol!

[Donn Hewes]

Regarding working a little farther back; eventually you will learn to step over a log when it is safe to do it. You never want to step over a chain or in front of the log. Too hard to see and easy to trip. All ways step over the log. You should be comfortable with your driving and your footing before trying that.

[Carl Russell]

@Donn Hewes 30802 wrote:

Regarding working a little farther back; eventually you will learn to step over a log when it is safe to do it. You never want to step over a chain or in front of the log. Too hard to see and easy to trip. All ways step over the log. You should be comfortable with your driving and your footing before trying that.

I would add that when trying to step over a log, step on it.

However, I learned to never step over a moving log…… yes, I have done it, and yes I have ridden on logs while skidding…… but it just isn’t safe. That move is just a request for a serious setback.

Furthermore it only takes a second to stop the horse and move. These little stops go a long way toward reinforcing whoa/stand, and in the long run will be much safer.

As calm as your horse is, as the loads get bigger and you get more confident in him, he will learn to try harder…. moving faster…. in challenging terrain…. this is when it becomes important that your working habits are consistent and safe. Getting long lines, practicing driving from a distance, driving while standing still, stopping the horse briefly to reposition, handling chain without reins in your hands, positioning yourself and setting up the hitch to stay out of the bight, etc….

All these things arrive in the context of the work at hand, so in some ways it is impossible to describe. What you are doing is excellent. You are working calmly and consistently, and moving both the horse and yourself steadily through the learning curve.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

I am with Carl on this. I rarely step over a moving log. Stop, step over, go. When I am twitching wood in tight terrain, I stop frequently. I was helping a friend get started in the woods with his team last year. The most important advice I imparted was to stop his team more frequently. I think it is easy to get caught up in the moment, adrenaline surging, and forget to stop.

John, there have been a lot of comments on your horse and how calm he is. I’d like to throw out there that although horse personality and temperament influence the working relationship, a lot of that relationship has to do with the teamster. Even though your horse might have a calm demeanor, I bet he could be made a nervous wreck in the wrong hands. Clearly he trusts and feels comfortable with your leadership and I would like to compliment your efforts to that end.

George

[jen judkins]

@Carl Russell 30780 wrote:

I would never remember which color went where, and I would still have to look up to make sure they weren’t twisted anyway. I just look up at the horse when gathering lines, and I can quickly see/feel which line goes where.

No question, Carl…the different colors lines are probably not neccessary for an experienced team and teamster, having worked together in the woods daily for several decades.

However, try to imagine an inexperienced teamster or even a more seasoned teamster with a young or inexperienced horse in the woods. While hooking a log with a plan to start the load to the left, the horse suddenly decides to move off (distracted, spooked, anxious) to the right. You suddenly find yourself on the wrong side of the log. Being able to get to the left rein quickly (twisted or not) might save you from a very bad experience. I’m just sayin…

[Carl Russell]

@Jen Judkins 30807 wrote:

No question, Carl…the different colors lines are probably not neccessary for an experienced team and teamster, having worked together in the woods daily for several decades.

However, try to imagine an inexperienced teamster or even a more seasoned teamster with a young or inexperienced horse in the woods. While hooking a log with a plan to start the load to the left, the horse suddenly decides to move off (distracted, spooked, anxious) to the right. You suddenly find yourself on the wrong side of the log. Being able to get to the left rein quickly (twisted or not) might save you from a very bad experience. I’m just sayin…

Oh Jen, I didn’t mean that the different colors wouldn’t be helpful to some folks…. all I said was that my mind doesn’t work that way….. I can see the logic… red line-right hand…. but I couldn’t pull that off…. I would have to remember all over- “red/right”, and the momentary focus would throw me off.

I was an inexperienced teamster having just the problems you describe. My solution was not to look at the lines but to look at the horse while grabbing the lines, and to work the lines with my hands until I could see and feel that I had the right lines in the right hand. In that way I satisfied my need to broaden my focus to address the many factors of the situation. If I take the time to figure out the reins, to focus on a small detail, my mind feels like it is missing vital information and gets rattled….. I think THEY call that ADD:confused:.

I truly would not remember which color was supposed to go in which hand. That has nothing to do with how valuable the modification may be to others whose minds operate differently.

Carl

Re-reading this post made me think of an exercise I used when I was just starting out….. I would attach my lines to the door/wall/couch/bedframe/whatever and when I was watching TV or hanging out I would just handle my lines… coil, uncoil, drop, pick up, twist, untwist….. handle, handle, handle. I found it really helped me get comfortable handling the lines themselves so that when something was attached to them, I wasn’t trying to get comfortable with the reins and the driving at the same time.

[Donn Hewes]

The situation you describe is very really, Jen. We have all been there. No matter what you do it takes time to make the lines become that extension of your hands, that tells you to switch them if you pick them up in the wrong hands. I pass the lines to one hand (actually either hand) just about all the time. This has helped me learn to manage the lines and tail with out thinking or looking at them.

[near horse]

Either having the lines in your hands already or being able to see & grab them is top of the list IMO – sorting out (or any control for that matter) can’t happen until you’ve got ’em in hand. So I’m voting for fluorescent orange ends : )

[Anonymous]

This has been a great discussion!! Lots of good information, I have been re-reading many posts to try and get as much information out of everyone’s suggestions as possible. I look forward to seeing those of you I have already met, and those I haven’t this weekend. John

[Anonymous]

I’m not against color coded lines at all but I’m with Carl it wouldn’t work for me. As I read theses posts some thing was nagging at me. I rarely have to look or think about which line is which. How this happens is some thing I couldn’t put to words. Today at skidding with Bell a green mare I relized that when the lines are coiled( to turn,hook or unhook) in my left hand, the left line is always between the index finger and middle, right line between the middle and ring fingers. The excess line is neatly coiled in the hollow of thumb and forfinger. When its time to start of the right line just seems to fall into my free hand. I guess its just become mussle memory to do this but it dose seem to work well for me. Being comfertable with your line as its been said before is key.

Cheers Tristan

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