HD no-till drill

[near horse]

Did anyone see that small HD no-till drill on Rural Heritage TV last night? The broadcast was from 2010 Horse Progress Days but I didn’t catch the manufacturer’s name. Anybody know? Those boogers weren’t cheap but not much is these days.

[Andy Carson]

@near horse 25591 wrote:

Did anyone see that small HD no-till drill on Rural Heritage TV last night? The broadcast was from 2010 Horse Progress Days but I didn’t catch the manufacturer’s name. Anybody know? Those boogers weren’t cheap but not much is these days.

I didn’t see it but would love if anyone has info to share about this design. I am curious if these no/min till techniques are getting popular with animal powered folks. It seems there is interest… I read an article not too long ago about the Nordells no-tilling garlic.

[blue80]

Didn’t see the RH show, but Esch Manufacturing might be the one….

1 horse per ft. of drill I am told…

[Simple Living]

I had it taped as I always do! LOL I believe the one you are talking about was shown close to the begining of the program and was pulled by 4 American Creams. It was the Esch Model 5503 no-till drill on an E-Z Trail forecart. If I understood the man on the PA system, the price for that drill was $18,500. I am not sure there is anyone on this board that could justify buying a piece like that. Countrymouse may have a better idea piecing together used tractor equip.

Gordon

[Tim Harrigan]

I found this:

(ESCH MANUFACTURING – 2210 Creek Hill Road, Lancaster PA 17601 – (717) 397-1051, Elam Esch)

Grass and Seed Drills – The Esch Model 5507 ground drive no-till drill plants 15 rows with a row spacing of 5.5 inches. A 5.5HP Honda engine powered the hydraulics on the machine that was demonstrated behind six draft ponies on a White Horse forecart. $18,500.

The Esch Model 5503 is similar to its larger brother except it plants 7 rows and has a hand operated hydraulic lift. $8,000. Pulled by four draft ponies on an E-Z Trail forecart.

[near horse]

Thanks guys –

I heard the $18,000+ price and winced as well – it seems they followed it up with the comment that one could try and share the cost with neighbors (if you have them), rent it out to others or do some custom work. Still, that’s a pretty big number to overcome = to a brand new square baler (almost).

In the video clip (and I’m totally going from memory here) it seems like one of the Amish guys walking along had to clear some trash off one of the discs – could be I’ve got it mixed up w/ another tool shown.

I’m wondering if one could build one of these out of salvaged materials/parts. Maybe our resident engineer/tinkerer Andy can add this to his list of projects to take on?

I didn’t really understand how these smaller units were able to bust the crust so to speak – on the conventional no-till drills isn’t a lot of the effect from the mass of the drill?

Anyway – I was pretty interested in seeing more on how that thing operated – both mechanically and in performance. If anyone goes to HPD this year, check it out if you’ve got a little time.

Does Esch also make those treadmills or am I mixed up?

[Andy Carson]

Geoff/Tim,
I think I will actually put this on my short list of equipment to make sometime. I don’t think I’ll be able to get started until I am sure my other equipment is working well and doesn’t need tweeked. This might be a while, but I would have use for a very small min-till drill and it sounds like there is interest from others as well… I have seen figures in the range of 300-500 lbs per opener for the openers on no-till drills. I would be more attacted to running a disc through the field first, then following up with a heavier drill, but probably not as heavy as a true “no-till” setup. If I can create field conditions (with the disc) where 200 pounds per disc can plant will be sufficient, than I think I could make a useful min-till drill. It would probably be in the range of 3 feet wide. This might seem kinda crappy compared to other drills, but I think of this more of a “plow substitute” than a “drill substitute” and plowing a 3 foot swath with one horse would truly be monumental! :). Tim, I could use some thoughts (and any draft measurements you have) here when you get around to it. This is not a project I will start until everything seems to be on the right track with spring work, so no rush… I have some concerns about residue management, but don’t think it is as critical for this drill as for a corn planter, so am tempted to not put any residue wheels on this…

[Tim Harrigan]

I think if you are are going to till the soil to a depth near the depth of seed placement you could take an older conventional drill and cut it down to size. If you want a little better penetration you could just use stiffer down pressure springs and hang a little weight on it if necessary. If you did that I think your single could pull a 4 ft drill without any trouble.

[Andy Carson]

Thanks for the thoughts. I am interested in exploring this no/min till topic for small grains and little more, despite the likelihood that it might not be yield any improvements over conventional methods. For me, I would have a hard time not discing before drilling mostly because I would be nervous about weeds without some type of tillage. Perhaps if the no-till crop was planted directly into a cover crop that was rolled, mowed, or will winter kill than weed control wouldn’t be as much of a concern… The Nordell’s no till garlic into oats and peas, which winter kill, leaving the garlic. Kind of a clever trick, I think, and I can do something similar by seeding covers into standing crops (as in seeding clover between corn rows). I know this isn’t a new idea, and isn’t technically “no-till,” but it shares some similarities. Of course, I don’t need to use a no-till drill for this… Perhaps it is the mere existence of these (and related) techniques that made no-till drills a late arrival on the “ag invention scene”, corresponding roughly to heavy herbicide use (I think). I wonder if there are clever techniques that might make no till drills work well on a modern animal powered farm without the heavy herbicide use. Perhaps if one rolled or mowed a cover crop and no tilled directly into the cover residue? Perhaps one could no-till something like wheat into a cover of oats, which would winter kill leaving just the wheat in spring? One could also no till directly after harvest of the previous crop (if that crop smothered weeds), but then your no-till crop has to live through the winter, and that kinda limits your options… I am curious what others think. It seems there is interest in animal powered no-till, were the folks envisioning this envisioning round-up as well?

[Mike Rock]

Andy,
Get a copy of Faulkner’s ‘The Plowman’s Folly’. It will set your mind at ease about discing. Also from Acres USA get Newman Turner’s ‘Fertility Farming’ and enjoy. Just the disc and the drill are all you need to plant amazingly good crops and forget weeds, pretty much. They make good ‘companions’ for your crops, provided they are not to prevalent, was his attitude. Good mulch and deep rooters bring up minerals and deposit them when they die.

I think the references these guys provide will be most interesting.

Most respectfully,
Mike

Many good books are available online. One good source of ag books is:

http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/01aglibwelcome.html

They allow you do download and print your own!! Keeps me out of trouble but printer cartridges are expensive :((

[Andy Carson]

Thanks Mike,
I had read the plowman’s folly before, but I’ll have to check out the other resources. Just to be clear, I am most interested in thinking about and speculating on what the best practices might be if one was interested in doing no-till on a small scale using animal power and organic practices. If I knew what those techniques were, it would be easier to compare and contrast them with min-till and conventional tillage. The question arose for me because when I was trying to imagine what the best no-till practices might be (IE disc then drill), I ended up with something closer to min-till than no-till. I disced and broadcast seeded cover crops last year and was generally pretty happy, so I do believe in the concept, but there is always room for improvement. Perhaps no-till is very difficult on a small scale without herbicides? Using modern tractor-based practices as a model, it seems likely that pure no-till would be a “non-starter” for an organic farm, but it is also very possible that I am simply not familiar with practices that would make it work… Often times there are creative and effective ways of accomplishing the same goal without simply copying what tractors do. Just trying to think the concept through…

[Andy Carson]

Here’s one technique…
http://www.umanitoba.ca/afs/agronomists_conf/poster_pdf/Caroline_Halde_poster.pdf

[near horse]

While it’s just one disc, those rolling coulters on the Pioneer plows slice into the soil pretty nicely – they’re larger diameter than most coulters and fluted along the edge. Maybe they wouldn’t be of any real value on a fabbed no-till drill but thought I’d mention it.

[Andy Carson]

Hey Geoff, how specifically do you think you use a no-till drill if you had one your horses could pull? I know alot of farmers on the palouse use them to plant winter wheat following lentils. We did that on the farm I used to work on, but we also sprayed for broadleaf weeds using some chemical I can’t remember the name of… Weed pressure there is so different in different parts of the county, and this might have a big impact on the practicality of organic no-till.

PS. If there is anyone else who thinks they would use an animal powered no-till drill, please let me know how you would plan to use it (IF you already owned it and knew it worked)…

[Tim Harrigan]

Andy, I don’t have a specific comment about no-till drills. What comes to mind every time I think about what you are doing is be sure to start with a small scale area and increase your no-till acreage as your knowledge and experience increase. Have a plan B that you can manage with the labor and machinery you have if plan A tanks. How some of these planting systems respond varies from year-to-year with the weather and other factors. Some years great, some years not so great, other years terrible. If you end up with a heavy mat of rye or barley straw, but not heavy enough to suppress the weeds, you will have a weedy, heavy mat of residue to work in or deal with in some way. Or, if you roll it and only get partial die down and it pops up again after you have planted, good luck with that one.

I remember as a 10-yr old what a 10 acre field looks like from the business end of a hoe. Maybe your wife will be willing to help you with that?:D I guess just keep all your tillage options open, including MB plowing if it comes to that.

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