Health care advice

[sanhestar]

the problem is that people who haven’t experienced adverse reactions to vaccinations and downright damage from vaccination can’t relate to the warnings heeded by people who have (and I don’t mean me alone but the hundreds of homoeopaths that treat conditions caused or aggravated by vaccinations).

[dominiquer60]

I value all the opinions on this topic, at school it was vaccinate, medicate and pump with hormones, so it is a relief to read the opposite. Sanhestar, I am with Robert on this one, I hope to hear more of your opinions, I may agree with some and not others as with all opinions, but please share yours when you are compelled to. I especially enjoy reading the many contrary opinions and facts. I am assuming Elke was just pointing out something that could have been misunderstood by what you wrote, based on the smiley faces that he used. We deal with many pathogens everyday, and you are right, it is hard on an immune system to deal with all those significant pathogens at once.

I am still curious as to what vaccinations are given to cattle. If I was in a situation where someone with more authority than myself (guy that owns the farm and 40 head of beef) really wants me to get my calves vaccinated, what are the options, what may be the better choices and what should I avoid? I am curious to know, I may find myself in a situation where it would be better to keep the peace and compromise a little, than force my contrary point of view on an elder with vastly more authority. I am all for ideal, but sometimes we all have to do things that we are not happy about.

Thanks again everyone for the valuable advice, I really enjoy this group of good people.

Erika

[CharlyBonifaz]

I am still curious as to what vaccinations are given to cattle.

as it was said before: it depends……it actually depends a whole lot 😉
I think you need to find out about infectious problems in your area first of all, what risk are your cattle in to contract one of these diseases? figure what you want to do with your animals (attend shows? transport them to various states? just work on the farm? have other cattle there or raise some for others? lots of contacts versus little…; have a lot of people on your farm? “through traffic”?), find out what are the local recommendations? what is the local law? think about what is important for you (2 animals you want to work with is a completely different set from 500 you want to see as beef asap) and what risks you are willing to take for your animals? do you plan to breed them? if you decide to vaccinate against a certain disease you still have to contact your vet to figure out what vaccine might be best suited for your case and at what time schedule (yes even this will vary under certain circumstances)…..if you have finally settled on a scheme ( I also and especially consider the decision to not vaccinate as such) make sure you reconsider now and then, because conditions will vary continuously….
there are just way too many variabilities to have an answer ready for every probable case, and as always when you make a decision in life you’re just assessing risks – one way or the other

sanhestar,
most of us think of our immune system only when it does not function properly; I wanted to make sure you understand our immune system is working at all times, continuously fighting off pathogens, who simply don’t show up one at a time, waiting in line…

elke

ps:
vaccines never contain highly infectious agents (positively my last word on this subject :rolleyes: I’d rather discuss harnessing :D)

[becorson]

In PA, common vaccinations for dairy catle are: IBR, BVD, PI3, BRSV, rabies, (all viral diseases) Mycoplasma, Haemophilus, Mannheimia, Pasturella, (bacterial or quasi-bacterial respiratory diseases) , Clostridium perfringens type C and D and E. coli (intestinal bacteria) and Leptospirosis (a spirochete bacteria that causes abortions and other infections) .
there are lots of different brands of vaccines with various combinations of the above.

on a completely unrelated note: did you know that the word “vaccine” comes from the Latin word for cow (vacca) ? because the first vaccine, against small pox, was derived from cow pox ….. the cow that Edmund Jenner used for his first experiments with cow pox was a Glouchester named Blossom.

[near horse]

I’d like to add my 2 cents although it probably is time to move on.
It comes down to which gamble are you willing to take. You need to play the odds so to speak. So here’s my breakdown:

No colostrum – death sentence.

Said to have colostrum and run through sale barn – a little better than the previous death sentence. Usually not the healthiest calves in the first place and going through an auction is even pretty stressful to adult cattle so not a great option.

From private party w/ cattle – better option. Regardless of the Johne’s situation there. Then follow vaccination protocol used by cattle people in your area and you’ll be fine.

The reason you used a multiple vaccine is you don’t know which pathogen your animal will be exposed to. So you play it safe.

at school it was vaccinate, medicate and pump with hormones

The previous statement is more about “production medicine” (which I don’t think you are interested in). Producers are pushing cattle to reach market weight and using hormone implants is one way to “increase efficiency” or feed conversion. There’s a rule of thumb among the pen riders at feedlots – “If you don’t see 5-10% acidosis, then you’re not pushing them hard enough”. Kind of sick but that’s where production is at in commecial animal ag these days. Also look at BST or Posilac in dairy cattle (although Monsanto has now spun it off to someone else). It’s all about numbers – get them cranking out the milk, pedal to the metal and then cull them. Often before the cows reach the break even point (4 lactations). Doesn’t make sense.

becorson –

but wanted to add that milk replacer is generally cheaper than real milk, that is why dairy farmers usually feed their calves replacer

I’m not trying to sound rude but where is this? Most dairies out here use cull milk (not saleable) and replacer. Trying toget by on as little replacer as possible. That stuff is running close to $80 per 50# bag now. Maybe I’m just seeing the big dairies out here – 4000 cows.

[Howie]

Geoff

Milk price here is way down but even at $80 a bag that is still cheaper than SALEABLE milk. If you don’t have extra milk then most of the farmers here use replacer. Have a friend with a large herd, about 200, that says that if is not fit for people then it is not fit for his calves.

[becorson]

Just to answer Geoff’s question: “here” is Pa.

[dominiquer60]

Thanks everyone for the advice, it is wonderful to have a place like DAP where we can get so many opinions. When the time comes I will probably purchase colored calves of some sort from a private party that is reputable and has given colostrum, if time and money permit. Otherwise I know if I give a neighbor or two the heads up they will save me a nice pair of Holsteins that were started on colostrum. If I have to vaccinate, I will most likely follow the program on the farm. My boyfriend would love the excuse of a pair of bull calves to have a milk cow again for himself, and a couple of neighbors may buy into that thought also, for bath or pet consumption only of course. 😉

Thanks Again,
Erika

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