Healthcare

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Can I talk with ‘you guys’ about the healthcare ‘issues’ you’re having? 😀

I hear some pretty horrific things on the radio, a lot of american media based around how our british healthcare system is ‘rationed’ and we all hate it….I wanted to somehow say to you that this isn’t the case at all! I’ve only ever met one person in my life who thinks the NHS is a bad idea! I can only imagine that interested parties ‘over there’ have specifically dug up and exported these NHS haters to prove their point?

The NHS is not perfect in it’s execution, and that is what we argue over. Few would rather not have it at all! Of course, there is only so much money to go round so sometimes tough decisions have to be made about for example, VERY expensive new cancer drugs, that are not proven to save every life etc. BUT – we have the NHS, at a tiny cost – I pay £120/yr – and you don’t have to worry if you are not attractive to an insurer, you will still get ALL the NHS services even if you are, for example, a diabetic – no questions asked! AND, nobody is stopping you going private ASWELL, if you can afford it. When your money runs out on the private system though, the NHS is still there, you haven’t been kicked out. It really is the best of both worlds.

I am extremely grateful to the NHS. I have no hope of affording private healthcare, and neither can most of my family. We have all had operations, been rushed to hospital for various things and my gran had two treatments for cancer and the service could not have been better. My diabetic partner has all the drugs and checks he needs for life, for free AND he still gets anything else he might need too. This bill probably amounts to more than we will ever put in. If I could afford private healthcare, I would, but am still happy to pay for the NHS given what it’s done for my family, and my money will go towards helping someone else who needs it.

For me, the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about and I can’t imagine why Americans would be so dead set against it? I gather some have concerns about government control – like I say, you can still have private healthcare too if you wanted, and the NHS isn’t ‘owned’ by the government – it’s ours, we pay for it, we use it, and it stays with us regardless of who’s in power, it’s certainly not a control thing.

[mitchmaine]

hi ixy, i don’t get it either. one fact is that 1 outof each seven dollars spent here in usa is spent on health care one way or another. no one disputes that so we know we are talking about one ripe juicy plum. millions are spent to protect the status quo. fear is the greatest weapon. the truth is no insurance company will cover you here if you have pre- existing conditions. or get old, or return from military service. so our government protects them with medicare, medicaid, and the v.a. no one on these programs would tank them either. insurance companies like to insure young, healthy people and when they need coverage, fight with them about coverage. do i sound synical enough yet? cause i’m just getting started. i better quit. our law makers get ellected because they get lots of corporate money to fund their elections, and now the supreme court has guaranteed that right because of freedom of speech. you can say what you want if you have enough money.

[sanhestar]

we have a – I think – similar health system in Germany than that described by Ixy.

up to a fixed monthly/yearly income you’re in the “Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung” = GKV – a fixed percentage of your monthly wages will go there (14,9%). Several insurance companies provide the health care for this system, so you can choose between several competitors -although the differences are small, some are more willing to cover alternative treatments or glasses and other things than others. Middle of 2009 the German government issued a law that fixed the monthly amount at 14,9%. Before that, the different companies variied for a few percentage point.

If you’re unemployed, retired or living on social security, they will cover you. If you have children, they will cover them, too.

And then there’s the private insurance companies. You have to pay privately if you have a high income (but if you want, you can still stay member in the GKV) and they are trying to get more people to at least make additional private contracts for the treatments the GKV won’t cover or better accomodations when in a hospital, etc.. During the last 10-15 years the system of the GKV is declining (too many sick people and not enough income from working people) so they cut back on treatments they carry (f.e. dentist work).

[Anonymous]

Think about this lots of people in America live wild eating whatever they want to getting obese or just fat. Sleeping with anyone they want to sure they have protection if they want to use it not forced to. Drinking, smoking, drugging in excess. Now what obama wants is for they working class to pay for health care for irresponsible people I feel it is my duty if I want to have sex with 100 women an get aids I should have to pay for my treatments not you. If I am 500 lbs obese it is my fault I stuffed my face with twinkies. I have no problem helping someone who will help themselves 90% of those on welfare do it because they are LAZY. We have programs in place now for those that cannot do for themselves ie mentally retarded and such. I have no health care because of my own beliefs and I dont need the gov. telling me what I need. I served in the military as did lots of you all for a FREE country this healthcare bill has this in it like if you dont accept it you get a fine if you cant pay the fine you go to jail. That isnt free that is a communist,facist,sorry hitleristic idea or way to go about things. I have used the va for vets. and have had friends and family die in its care from asian orange. I went in to see about getting some meds when sick once and seen how they do and the lack of supplies. It is a good idea by the less fortunate but the lazy usually take over that happened with welfare. I believe leave it alone be responsible for your actions I dont smoke, drink, have many sex partners , am not gay, or obese so why do I have to be reponsible for there actions or diseases. What is being proposed is more extreme than what you have. Ixy you said sometimes bad decisions have to be made why here you get treated the way it is when it is rationed they will choose young over old,std’s over aids, flue over cancer.WHY here if you have it you get treated they cant refuse you medical care here. One question I love asking no one has a response to is feel free to answer anyone. Is there someone that says you can not have healthcare when your young because I keep hearing I cant have because I have a pre existing problem most answers go like this. How old are you 40+, well werent you young once without problems, yes then when your young get health care. You CAN NOT blame the system for your problems this way of life (farming) is a choice. You dont have to farm go to the city make more money get health care if not it is your choice as well as mine dont make me pay for your choices. Sorry I just dont see letting the bums of society get free stuff will I work my butt off and stay healthy have morals, RESPONSIBILITY for yourself things will look up. The BIBLE says if you dont work you dont eat, if you dont sow you wont reap make sence to me but then I am an old foogy to I believe the old ways. GOD Bless You All and America

[Nat(wasIxy)]

I think the beauty of the NHS for me is that it is not the rich or the working, paying for the poor and lazy – everybody gets the same treatment so you’re not cut out if you earn over so much, as far as I know, if the queen needs healthcare, she could get it on the NHS (I imagine she has her own doctors, but still, she COULD). This is unlike the welfare system here where working people end up paying for people who make no effort to find work.

You’ll always get some people too lazy to work, but does that mean we all have to suffer? I doubt we’re all too lazy to work, most of us have that urge to better ourselves. So what about the people that do work and really can’t afford insurance?

In fact, state healthcare may encourage people to go to work as if currently you qualify for free healthcare if you’re not working, what incentive do you have if you’d struggle to pay insurance if you went and got a low paid job?

I agree that if you don’t WANT this to be brought in, it shouldn’t be forced through regardless but if this is being fought just because people don’t like the government bringing in rules…why have it at all? Do you think there should be NO laws at all, because anything from ‘on high’ that tells you how to behave (don’t murder/molest children) etc is ‘out of order’? I don’t like government intervention, it’s killing our farming industry over here, but if they’re bringing in something to benefit me, I won’t fight them just for the sake of it!

[Nat(wasIxy)]

Another thing I think about is that if you pay for private insurance, you’re only getting the services they offer, and wy do they offer the range of services they do? Because it makes them money. Something doesn’t earn so many dollars, it’ll be cut. So the idea that we are ‘rationed’ over here looks even more ridiculous, as the only things we don’t get here are things that are ludicrously expensive, that no profit-making insurance company would touch in a million years anyway!

[Anonymous]

No Ixy I dont think it just helps the less fortunate I believe it promotes people to become less fortunate to get free stuff. I think it is like laws in some countries where citizens are armed and evil doers get punished not 3 hot and a cot, cable t.v. and clothes. That even our poor cannot get sometimes I mean punished there crime rates are super low. Take away citizen weaponery and watch crime go up 10 fold over nite. The same will happen to the health care issue. Becides its only 6% of Americans dont have health care of some sort. It is the rich trying to enslave the poor if it wasnt why will there be no choice ok the choice will be get it or go to jail wow what a choice. They can make a program to fit the 6% that needs health care. Free here and I dont wanna sound prejudice will include all the mexicans that can get here why they dont wanna give us there country but still keep asking us to support them and as for illegals my great grand parents came here from ireland and germany through ellis island to be American citizens. No our health care system aint broken we have the best if not why do they keep coming here to get fixed if you take the money away the product will suffer. Then death will be the cheapest way to treat the elderly and the sick I dont want that for my family or parents aint right and I will fight it tooth and toenail.

[jac]

Hi JimB . I agree with a lot of what you say. over here we are being taken over by do gooders and health and safety stuff. We pander to the criminals in jail while good working people get every obsticle imaginable put in their way. The jail birds were up in arms because they had to “slop out” .. nurses have to do that every day and you dont hear them complain. Every year anuther civil liberty is taken away in the name of terrorism, meanwhile a well known terrorist with one hand and a glass eye is allowed to roam our streets AND claim full social security payments !!!! at the same time our troops are sent to war with inferior kit. I dont want society to turn intolerant but I think things have swung too far.. IXY.. The NHS is a superb thing but as usual its got too many fat cats at the top creaming a lot of money that should be going to give nurses a decent pay and a real bug of mine is NHS doctors “moonlighting” in the private sector !!! How can they do that if they’re employed by the NHS?? and I have it from a nurse that the level of treatment is definatly better in the private sector.. the level of care is the same because that is down to the nurses..

[near horse]

Wow Jim – you are completely off base and making bold statements that you have provided no evidence for. For example, what data is there that shows this:

Take away citizen weaponery and watch crime go up 10 fold over nite.

And –

I think it is like laws in some countries where citizens are armed and evil doers get punished

We call those 3rd world countries.

No our health care system aint broken we have the best if not why do they keep coming here to get fixed if you take the money away the product will suffer.

People (US citizens) are actually going to other countries to get surgeries because they can get quality care for a lower price. We have the best health care THAT MONEY CAN BUY – unfortunately many folks in this country can’t afford it. Illegal immigrants are coming here to get work, make money and provide for their families – I expect that most of us (including you) would do no less for your family. Your ancestors did.

Then death will be the cheapest way to treat the elderly and the sick I dont want that for my family or parents aint right/QUOTE]

With that thinking, death will always be the cheapest way to treat all health issues regardless of age- just shoot ’em. I think an aspirin is almost as expensive as a bullet.

It is the rich trying to enslave the poor

That’s true but the rich that are benefitting are shareholders in health insurance companies and their CEO’s. That’s why we need a public option.

It’s just sad that average hard-working people like Jim have been manipulated by big money poured into the media by corporations to twist the truth. They will benefit and have the rest of the public blaming other groups – mexicans, ilegals, liberals or what have you.

here if you have it you get treated they cant refuse you medical care here.

What? That’s not true. Why do you think they want your insurance info before you can be admitted to a hospital? And, part of the need for health care reform is that folks without insurance can’t/don’t get treated and eventually end up in the emergency room which drives up the costs immensely.

[near horse]

Hi Mitch
I agree and don’t see how any average American citizen wouldn’t be outraged at this ruling:

lots of corporate money to fund their elections, the supreme court has guaranteed that right because of freedom of speech

It’s what got some of them on to the court in the first place.

The most ridiculous part of the ruling is that corporations are still limited in how much they can give directly to a candidate but not in how much they can spend supporting that candidate! That’s 2 sides of the same coin!

What is the difference between me giving “Senator X” a half million dollars for his re-election campaign and me asking him what he wants me to spend a half million dollars on IN SUPPORT of his campaign??!!!

We’re done for if this thing stands up for very long. Pretty soon we’ll have “The Washington Monument brought to you by CitiBank” and the “RCA Capitol Dome – where congress goes to meet”.

[Nat(wasIxy)]

There’s this idea about choice going on:

By your current system, there seems to be no choice to me at all? You have to get insurance, or you’re on your own. The insurers decide IF they will insure you, and what services you will then be entitled to, according to what makes them money. They have all the control there.

With our system, you don’t get a choice about whether to pay or not, but likewise you’re not discriminated against if you were born with some kind of problem, or you’re over a certain age, and no matter what’s up with you, you will be entitled to everything the NHS can possibly offer. There is no division between rich and poor – richard branson would get the exact same care as a hardworking but poor farmer. You can also choose to sample the excellent care offered by the private sector too, if you can – or both!

Jac proves my point about the execution of the NHS being the sticking point, not it’s existence. Yes we have had some dodgy political decisions made that have put the whole thing in financial difficulties and there’s way too many managers and not enough cleaners – but these points can all be argued over and changed.

[Anonymous]

Near Horse Respectfully I have to say this do research if I am wrong I apologize but I believe that I am write. Read my quotes and compair my answers bold quotes yes but true. 1. in australia they removed the right to own weapons cime shot up 30% in isreal it is legal to own weapons crime is at 9%- maybe 15%. 2.you said punishing evil doers and criminals is a 3rd world country act so what now we are less than a 3rd world country because if I remember right homicide is 5-20yrs in prison not instant death a slap on the wrist. 3.you are right we cant afford it because of the gov. always getting involved because they make lots of money from it. In florida it is because of the illegals that they had to shut down emergency care side of the hospitals in miami. 4.sorry I have not been given no big money and by the waya true blue through and through MARINE researches before approaching a conclusion Thank You. 5.The last statement it comes from the doctors hypacritical oathe they take when they become a doctor and lastly if our health care wasnt the best why would a parent from britain with children with a dwarfism disease come here for treatment or a family with siames twins send them here from india to get them separated or a british special forces soldier sent here to get put back together after an IED attack or a child from africa that had a brain tumor that needed removed. Couldnt they have been sent to a hospital way closer yes but here we have and give the best treatment avaliable.

[Mark Cowdrey]

Ixy & Near Horse,

Thanks for posting readable, well presented thoughts on this issue. I know it takes time to do so.
From my perspective, the issue of affordability & access to health care & health insurance is very similar to the centralized food production system in this country; short term corporate profits is the government backed primary goal. In this situation access to quality, affordable goods & services suffers. The few benefit, the many “pay”.

Mark

[Rod]

@Mark Cowdrey 14937 wrote:

The few benefit, the many “pay”.

Mark

Well said.

[near horse]

My opinion is that the tail is wagging the dog here. Corporate greed and profit are determining government policy. “If you don’t do such and such, we’ll break you.” Elected officials have to worry about getting re-elected and a well-funded disinformation campaign can wipe-out even the most forthright individual – not so with CEO’s. Many of them and their boards of directors aren’t even responsive to their own shareholders!

So what are you supposed to do as an elected official when you’re essentially held hostage by AIG, GM or whomever? Let them fail and we end up with even more catastrophic unemployment of average middle class Americans that did nothing to deserve it. Bail them out and reward them for corruption and bad management. Either way, as an elected official, you’re going to look bad.

I truly believe that corporations – those “too big to fail” – are dictating what we’re getting from our government.

So in the end Mark, you are right – few benefit and many pay. But I would rather try to push that benefit toward those with nothing rather than to those who already have everything.

The frustration comes from knowing we’re being screwed over by corporate greed and not being able to do a damn thing about it. One example – GoldmanSachs handed out bonuses equal to the total amount of money donated by the American public to provide aid to Haiti – 100 million dollars. That’s just contemptable!

No one is worth 1 million dollars per year, let alone have that added to your salary! A million dollars is $114/hr for every hour you exist during that year – asleep, in the shower, on the toilet ….

Converted to payment for a “normal” work schedule – $480/hr For that rate, at least do a better job fooling me!!

[Author]

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