History lesson please

[CharlyBonifaz]

it was the poorer farmers winter work to train the young oxen and sell them in spring to the wealthier neighbours; often enough very specific colours/markings were asked for (increasing the price), because it was their pride to have a perfectly fitting team….
poor farmers worked with cows and there is a publication from 1936 (Kuhanspannung in Deutschland – Heinrich Steinmetz) claiming it even increased the milk yield when the cows were put to work (I leave it to your imagination what the stalls and fodder must have been like)

[mitchmaine]

in a farm museum in milton, n.h. is a plow that was built by daniel webster. it’s the biggest plow i’ve ever seen. must be twelve feet long, two feet high. must weigh 300 pounds. the moldboard looks like a door. wooded, with iron strips attached. said it required 3 or 4 span of oxen to pull it.
daniel webster lived in the first half of the 1800’s. he was a statesman, lawyer, and probably very successful and he farmed with oxen. maybe horses and oxen didn’t really represent your economic condition? don’t know. just a thought.

mitch

[goodcompanion]

Supposedly Robert Burns was driving a plow with a coulter (when he rendered the “wee sleekit tim’rous beastie” (featured in “To a mouse”) homeless. I guess it could have been either oxen or horses pulling the “murd’rous pattle.” In my mind’s eye it was always horses.

Ayrshire is fine arable country, and with the Scots penchant for engineering, was probably among the first areas in the world to benefit from agricultural innovations.

[bivol]

@dlskidmore 21095 wrote:

Yes. Mitchmaine’s data indicated that after 1858 Oxen declined in prominence and horses rose. By 1880 horses outnumbered oxen, but there were still 45,000 steers and oxen in the state of Maine. In the previous conversation we had the same speculation, that rough terrain and bad roads led to the choice of oxen over horses, and that horses rose in prominence as the roads became better.

aaah, so i see! the oxen were better with poor roads, but once the roads got better, the horse’s greater speed probably paid off in getting the goods on the marked more quickly!
the one who catches the marked first will win! one of my uncles always saw to be the first to sell anything, so he could get the price!
and not only that, plowing, harvesting, everything was done faster that with oxen, and so it was worth investing in extra food – as long as you had any means to get it!

[jac]

Yes its true Robbie was a bit of a filanderer:D but remember that the cottage at Ayr is only his birthplace.. he left there as an infant and he used horses in later life…. 30 years after his father tried market gardening at Ayr. Hand digging is perhaps an option but it would be a huge task as he was trying to grow enough to sell also..Perhaps we will never know for sure.. its just another avenue of thought in my ever inquisitive mind…
John

[Nat(wasIxy)]

I don’t think we will ever know for sure, so much of ox history seems lost forever in Britain, seemingly stamped out in favour of horse propaganda, but if these people were poor, knowing how much in the way of resources a heavy horses needs compared to a pony or ox, I think you’d be pretty safe discounting clydes!

[Nat(wasIxy)]

I just wanted to add that I think you should just get Ayrshire oxen, they are hard to beat…

[jac]

Ixy if I can get the powers that be interested in this it would def be Ayrshires… And you would find a return train ticket in your mail box for a trip up here coz I have zero idea about starting them off:D…
John

[mitchmaine]

@jac 21024 wrote:

Can any of you oxen owners point me in the right direction for a web page relating to the numbers and usage of oxen in around 1750-1800… primarily in Scotland.. The reason I ask is I am starting a project at Robert Burns cottage in Alloway.. his birthplace. The project revolves round the Clydesdale horse and we are planning workshops around the horses role in agriculture at that time. Eventualy we will reinstate the small field at the rear of the cottage into the market garden the Burns father had at the time of the birth of the poet… however I have an idea for another avenue of thought… could it be possible that oxen were the power source at that time. Burns father was very poor and horses cost a fortune at that time.. also the stalls in the cottage seem very small so I wondered if it was possible that oxen were the power source… thank you in advance people….
John

hey john, isn’t there some kind of written record like crofters records, or tithing records, domesday book or some sort of agricultural historical report of the time that might give you some clue to the answer to your question? i know photographs don’t go quite that far back, but a picture is sometimes worth many words on the subject. good luck with your quest and let us know what you might come up with. and also what your notion is or other avenue of thought as you say.

best wishes and hope you are getting airline tickets for your visit to tunbridge. times getting short.

mitch

[CharlyBonifaz]

knew I had it somewhere, hope it helps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMQIpuGRLpI

[mitchmaine]

good one, charly. there must be a youtube video on every subject known to man. thanks.

[Vicki]

Maybe Paul Starkey would have some knowledge on your questions about historical draft animal use on the Emerald Isle? Perhaps contact him? http://www.animaltraction.com/Starkey-Publications.htm

[jac]

Thank you Charly and Vicki..2 great links. This forum rocks !!!!!.
John

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