"Horse People"

[becorson]

re: “humanizing” animals, i think humans ARE animals. and i know animals CAN think, and emote. in some ways we are different, sure. but in many ways we are points on a spectrum or continuum. there was an interesting article in National Geographic i saw recently, about “animal intelligence”. if intelligence is the ability to learn from experience, i firmly believe that some dogs and horses (and crows) who would score higher in “intelligence” than some people i know.
but of course, horses and cattle ARE also different from people. and they are not the dominant life form on the planet right now, Humans are. so that colors our relationship with them.
Still, i think it is an oversimplification to think that animals are in some way “lower” or less evolved than humans. i think Henry Beston said it well in his book “the outermost house” if i remember right, he wrote something like this:
“They are not underlings, they are not children, they are Other Nations” that seems true to me.

re: some people not being animal people– as a vet, i see all kinds of relationships between people and non-human animals, and i’ve often asked myself what being “successful” with animals means. Is it the person who has owned the largest number of animals? the person with the animals that live the longest? the person who is happiest to see his/ her animals in the morning and who spends the most time with them? the person who never drives a car or tractor but instead uses animal power 100%?
i laugh along with everyone else at people who paint their dogs’ toenails or have matching pink or purple accessories for their horse. but i guess when it gets right down to it i think there are many ways of being a “successful” animal person.

[near horse]

I think it Lynn Miller may have said this but I definitely agree – essentially “if picking one breed, size or color over another increases the amount of time you’ll spend working with or being with your animals, then great. Do it.”

[Hal]

@SidehillnDirtpoor 6646 wrote:

I remember reading that the introduction of tractors to the farms……..
Was the best thing that happened for horses…………..
Those people that enjoyed them and worked well with them, Kept them, Those that had No Buisness with horses got their wish and got rid of them…

I would have never thought about it that way. I am sure that this is partially true, but it seems sad that tractors pretty much took over agriculture when they came around, and that draft horse numbers declined so much. Isn’t it true that even many people who were good with horses did not keep them, just because tractors were the new “in” technology?

[Anonymous]

Not certain how much being a “horse”or “mule” person has to with personality and or exposure especially at an early age. However, certainly all are not created equal in our ability to handle or learn to work with animals.
Of our three kids one at 12 or 13 could handle any of the the animals; one at 36 still has trouble leading a “broke” animal; one just pretends they ( the animals) are not here.
The program I watched about “extreme logging” showed a logging operation that was using four mules to skid out logs. I am certainly not a “horse or mule logger”, though we have skidded a few logs for firewood. How good they were as loggers I certainly don’t know, however, I did see animals that were working; appeared to be well taken care of and in good shape; animals talked to and about in a manner that suggest genuine concern about them.
Must admit I did smile when they were trying to catch the mules at the beginning of the day; nice to see we aren’t the only ones that occasionally get “jerked” around when working with our animals.
Regardless of how “professional” their operation was, I enjoyed watching some real work being done. Really liked the mules and their loading the logs on the truck both the hydraulics and parbuckles
Joe (Ak)

[Crabapple Farm]

On the issue of tractors saving horses from having to work for people who hated them or were just not gifted with them:

Here’s a moral question:
Is an unhappy life better or worse than no life at all?
Is group extinction better than individual suffering?
Is an empty monoculture wasteland in which no animals suffer or die better than a diversified farm in which animals are being born, living, enjoying life and suffering and dying?

[HeeHawHaven]

@wantj43 6737 wrote:

Not certain how much being a “horse”or “mule” person has to with personality and or exposure especially at an early age. However, certainly all are not created equal in our ability to handle or learn to work with animals.

Joe (Ak)

Joe, I agree. I used to be fearful of horses! I grew up in the Chicago suburbs. But now, after much exposure to them and the necessity of being the leader of the house and therefore the mules, donks, and horse, I am very comfortable with them and think I have really good “horse/mule/donkey” sense. They all totally see me as the leader and I have a good report with them.

My kids also show different abilities with the animals. Early on, our daughter had a better connection with the mules. Now, it appears that Christian has caught on, especially with driving – he seems to be a natural!

But, I will agree that some are just not cut out for it no matter what.

I also enjoyed the mule loggers. I just enjoyed seeing them work. I don’t know enough to know if they were doing things right, but seeing mules represented in a good way on tv is good for me!

Dave

[OldKat]

@Hal 6722 wrote:

I would have never thought about it that way. I am sure that this is partially true, but it seems sad that tractors pretty much took over agriculture when they came around, and that draft horse numbers declined so much. Isn’t it true that even many people who were good with horses did not keep them, just because tractors were the new “in”technology?

Probably a true statement, but there were other factors in play as well. As much as the USDA apparently tried to stay out of the fray as to which was the best route to pursue the Land Grant U’s were busy teaching “economy of scale” which favored the machine over the animal.

If that is your ONLY measurement of viability the tractor probably is the better way to go. Of course that lead to formulated NPK rather that natural alternatives, legumes etc and then herbicides vs mechanical cultivation, then GMO vs whatever came before GMO.

While I think a bunch of people have come to reject some of the truisms that got us here, it is also a fact that we have the benefit of looking back over about an 80 year history of the transition that the farmers of that era didn’t have. I think the farm eighty rather than forty, farm one sixty rather than eighty, farm a section rather than 160 or even 320 mindset seemed to make sense to many people. The old least cost commodity producer trap dramatically changed the very face of agriculture in our country and around the world. Much of the crap that came along with that change is making less and less sense and is very probably “not sustainable” in the long run.

[Hal]

@OldKat 6745 wrote:

Probably a true statement, but there were other factors in play as well.

Undoubtedly so. I was probably a bit too simplistic when I said that it was such a simple decision.

It is interesting to think about how much the mindset of at least some farmers and consumers has changed in that relatively short time (when tractors were invented and spread). But certainly it seems that many farms are still trapped in the system of producing more while receiving less and less profit on each item produced. Does the USDA still promote this “bigger is better” way of thinking, or have they changed their ways now? I don’t know much about the government’s take on agriculture (though I know that some of it certainly isn’t popular on this site).

[near horse]

My experiences w/ USDA have been mixed. While they do seem to recognize the changes many of us would like to see (the have programs like ATTRA Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas – I think) the real money still goes to big Ag. Also, there I have been inundated with farm stats surveys over the last few years. “how much ground in winter wheat? how many pigs? Any grain storage?” Not sure why it suddenly became so important.

Of course that lead to formulated NPK rather that natural alternatives, legumes etc

First, I’m not challenging this at all but it is a perfect place to plug the book I’m reading (and anyone who farms and deals w/ fertilization should read this) “The Alchemy of Air”. Some historical descriptions of how N fertilizer was mined out of Peru and hauled to Europe in the 19th century. Also, bird guano was dug out and hauled from the shores of Peru all the way back to Europe. There were even some “guano wars” over the stuff. Then, as those sources were played out, a German chemist worked out how to take N out of the air and form nitrate and ammonia – the chemical fertilizer of today.

I know I have mentioned this before AND I GET NO ROYALTIES 😡 but it really does change ones perspective on the historical side of agriculture as well as making you think about “carrying capacity” of the planet. Check it out.

[near horse]

On more thought about where tractor farming took agriculture. I think it started the breakdown of “community” in farming. Sure, there was still the elevator, feed store, …. but coming together as a community to help each other seemed to disappear when one guy could farm and harvest what used to take many. The local threshing crews that moved from one place to the next – all local people – just weren’t necessary.

[OldKat]

@near horse 6752 wrote:

On more thought about where tractor farming took agriculture. I think it started the breakdown of “community” in farming. Sure, there was still the elevator, feed store, …. but coming together as a community to help each other seemed to disappear when one guy could farm and harvest what used to take many. The local threshing crews that moved from one place to the next – all local people – just weren’t necessary.

.. and that is actually what I referring to when I mentioned the “scaling up” of farming operations over the last 7 or 8 decades. It has reached its logical, or illogical if you wish, conclusion. I saw a documentary on A&E, Discovery, or similar some 3 or 4 years ago that talked about towns in the mid-west that used to support maybe 100 or more farm families were down to maybe 5 or 6 families because the farmers are now are farming thousands of acres where a generation ago they were farming hundreds of acres each. Five or six families won’t support a grocery store, the drug store, elementary school etc.

Several years ago I bought some heifers from a guy in Nash, Oklahoma in the NW part of that state. When I went up there to pick them out I couldn’t help but notice all the dried up little towns, almost vacant just like they showed on TV. Sure makes you think …

[Robert MoonShadow]

Geoff ~ FYI: ATTRA has a unique symbiotic relationship w/ the USDA… they are funded by USDA, but are actually apart from them. Perhaps that is why they are relevant & focused towards the sustainable farming styles. ATTRA is an offshoot of NCAT (Nat’l Center for Appropriate Technology).

[near horse]

Thanks for pointing that out Robert.

Also, it is pretty evident to me how much we (I) need community. Look at this site. We (I) come here for community. In my case, the community of draft farmers that doesn’t exist where I live.

As many have said before, through interaction you can learn, change your ideas and opinions or at least more clearly define the things you believe and do. It’s difficult to acheive this in a vacuum.

OldKat –
The decay of rural towns is happening everywhere. Here in our area, the large wheat farms have forced most small towns to become bedroom communities w/ people commuting to the closest nearby “city” for employment. Folks then do their other business and shopping at the WalMart in the “city” and the town is a shell of what it used to be. The one thing they will fight tooth and nail for is keeping the school. That seems to be the last thing that defines a community. Hopefully, things can change.

[OldKat]

@humble1 6798 wrote:

OH MY OH MY are you full of it!!

humble1, did you use to post on this site under the name “John”?

[Hal]

Humble1, why is that post “full of it”? Those are interesting questions that deserve to be asked, I think. Though it might not be very fun, we (as a society) should ask hard questions. What is your take on the impact of tractors on horses?

[Author]

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