Horse Pulls

[Hal]

Hello,

Does anyone here have any thoughts about horse pulls and competitions? I have heard that “show horses” and their trainers are not very connected to horses and teamsters that actually work on farms, and I was curious if this has proven to be true for any of you. Has anyone here ever taken part in a horse pull?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Donn Hewes]

A brief reply, just to say I think it is an interesting topic and I look forward to the responses. I have never pulled any of my animals, and have never really wanted to. The reason is simple. I never have felt it was something I was particularly good at, and I don’t think I have ever had animals that were particularly good at it.

As an observer I have had two general experiences. I have know some of the best teamsters I have ever met, and they have been State Champion Pullers as long ago as the 60’s and 70’s. The qualities they expressed while working the teams came out in the photos of their championship teams. While I have never seen Jason pull; this is an example of someone who plays like he works. Beautiful. I have also been to some pulls were teamsters that could not drive or handle the horses attempted to pull heavy loads with horses that couldn’t stand and took two people to control, and were in no way calm, collected, or prepared for their task. I did not enjoy it all. It can be satisfying to look for the little, scrappy team that will tighten their traces before they pull and see how far they will go. Jason, tell us the whole story. Beautiful sport, but what are the down sides? Thanks Donn

[Iron Rose]

There are 2 types of Pullers the ones that pull horses for the love of it and the type that will do what ever just to win.
Most of the first group a good horseman (many are loggers or farm with there horses)who condition there teams and work them everyday. You can usually pick them out as they don’t need a whole crew to to get them hooked. They are more concerned with there horses than winning.
The other group are the ones that will abuse there horses with hotshots and or performance drugs, somtimes rationing water so they make wieght . Some will do anything to win.
In my area of the country we have two different groups of pullers. The farmer pullers (sometimes called the barefoot pullers as shoes are not allowed) and the professional Pullers( most of these horses are shod with Calks) Both pull by the same rules but in different classes. Most of the ones that I have pulled with are generally sincere and treat there horses well, but there are bad eggs in every bunch.
I have heard many people say that pulling horses is abusive, but these horses are well trained,conditioned,and fed the best. What I think his abusive is people that only hook there horse a couple of times a year. When they do they pile the wagon or sleigh with all there friends drive them all day with little rest.

[Gabe Ayers]

Pulling Horses,

I have an article coming out in the Draft Horse Journal this next issue about our experience with the Ferrum Blue Ridge Folklife Festival last year (08). So most of the gist of that experience was or has been written about on DAP, so there it probably isn’t appropriate to write more about it now.

I would mention that just yesterday I posted in the “Horses” photo gallery several crossbred horses we have among our group of HHFF practitioners. Every one of the photos is from a horse pull.

I have been pulling ponies and horses since about 74. I have won a few contest but have not won many many more. I was taken to my first horse pull as an adult by a now deceased horseman named Donald Alpaugh from western New Jersey. Back when it still had some agricultural land and culture. He had two rules, never shock them and never drug them. His honorable participation was in doing the best he could against those that didn’t go by his rules. He was an inspiration to me, I was about 24 at the time and bought my first pair of draft ponies from him. I eventually traded around and got a pair that could get on the same load as Donald but never came close to actually beating him. He always crossed a load on me (pulled the load the entire required distance).

There are definitely allot of different attitudes about pulling horses. Dan Iron Rose said it clearly. I have never been in the do anything to win bunch, but at times have done lots of preparation to be competitive.

I have brought all the Biological Woodsmen to pulls with me as part of the cultural experience of working horses for a living. I have had some grief over the issue with a person close to me, but we ended up have irreconcilable differences in life generally. The point for me is that this is a thoughtful personally rewarding experience that I have made my own place in – with a specific goal or goals. Accomplishing those goals is what I will not let go of and will share. They have evolved from my mentor Donald Alpaugh and hopefully I have passed them on to others.

First goal is to have well presented calm and honest horses. This means their manes and tails are brushed/combed out, they don’t have any baling twine on their harness and they are relatively well controlled approaching, hitching and leaving the sled. One thing that has inspired my participation is that I know I am pulling or performing for the folks in the crowd and not the other pullers. As mentioned before I have always pulled my horses under some larger name or title than my own name. It seems an obvious way to gain attention to any business or cause one wants to promote, because they mention the driver/handlers name anyway, so if you want something said over the loudspeaker to the entire crowd then this is an opportunity. It compounds the benefit one may gain from participation, particularly if you are in the logging business and want to only work in the best woods owned by the smartest landowners. For instance, I have pulled many years under Environmentally Sensitive Logging and Lumber Co., Healing Harvest Forestry Coalition, Healing Harvest Forest Foundation, Draftwood Forest Products, Turman Draftwood Log Homes, and whatever I want to advertise or introduce to the viewing public.

For us this is one of the largest non auction crowds to ever see a horse doing anything. Many of the old hands watching appreciate the control and honest effort of our horses yet their numbers are fading fast. The largest segment of the crowd are people completely new to rural life and maybe to seeing work horses doing anything. Those are my interest group among the spectator crowd. It is important to remember that one only gets one chance to make a first impression, so I am convinced that understanding remains a part of publicly asking your animals for a tremendous effort.

As also mentioned about the Blue Ridge Folklife Festival I have been doing this a long time so many long time spectators know who we are. One of the mindsets to training horses to do well in this setting it to understand how horses think. They remember the setting and circumstances of every moment.
And in this part of the country one can’t strike or whip or even let your driving lines touch the horses (supposedly) throughout the effort. The rules also say you can’t head the horses between the out of bounds lines. So this means one has to be mindful of how to develop the horses to think that they can do what you ask regardless of the setting. This is why before we ever ask our horses for all they have at any contest, we take them to several contests and pull very hard and then drop out before they are hung or hooked to more than they can cross. Cross means pull the load the entire distance in one constant effort, full distance being 27 & 1/2 feet. So for many trips our young horses are taken to pulls and allowed to succeed before asking for all they can do, because that is the only way to make/allow them to be honest in that setting. It takes a considerable investment in travel and training to get any pair to the point they can compete with folks that do “anything” to win.

So I am not real poplar with those “anything to win” pullers, because they never know when we may turn a pair lose to do all they can do. They worry about it all the time. It is amusing to me and doubly troubling for the others. Because when we do elect to voluntarily drop out we actually get the largest applause from the audience than even the eventual winner. Often I have seen certain segments of the audience get up a leave the stands after we drop out, because they have seen what they came to see and don’t like seeing the horses hung up on loads they can’t pull.

I would say it takes at least three serious efforts by a new team in a pulling contest setting before asking them for all they have, sometimes maybe more. I have had horses that I took to seven contest before asking them for all they have. There are all sorts of approaches to preparing for a pull, and this is just our way.

It is interesting that there are now “pulling horse” auctions that sell horses that come from particular bloodlines known to be good pulling horses. These horses are usually well started and maybe have been to a few contest but have usually never been hung. Once you hang one in public and they know you won’t do anything about it in that setting your horses start trying less and less. They become what I call “show wise”. I have seen many of our competitors do this to many horses over the years and not even know it. These are the folks that keep going back to the sale to get a new pair after they basically defeated the last pair without even knowing it.

Usually despite being the same size and training one horse is a little bit stronger than the other so the teamsters job is to say whoa when one is hung or stops. As long as they have their head and necks stretched out and are trying you usually don’t sour them to the effort. As an old fellow told me once it is a lot better to stop two steps to soon, than one step to late. Among the HHFF pullers they know who is pulling honest and who is pulling for pure ego.

The pullers don’t like to see our old ragged trailer roll in, but the organizers do…..

Like many of the subjects broached on this board – it is complex, so I won’t wear the site out with a long post, but there is allot to pulling horses. I will say that over the thirty years of so of doing this with all breds – the red horses generally have the most try – just by their nature. This is part of why I am so dedicated to them, they have returned that dedication in multiple ways over the years. I believe one can breed heart into horses, it is a matter of attitude and that can be replicated through selective breeding, but training is even more important.

For the most part, generally – the serious horse pulling circuit is a game for rich people as a hobby, then hiring real pro’s to do the handling. We have never been in that class for several reasons and aren’t looking to go there with our re-creational, promotional, advertising, fun activity.

More later, if anyone finds this interesting……

[Carl Russell]

Like Donn, my most significant mentors pulled horses and oxen during the 60’s,70’s, and into the 80’s. They worked their animals in the woods, and on the farm, and enjoyed the camaraderie, setting a strong example of the teamster’s art. The sport used to really be a gathering of people who really enjoyed working their animals, and showing how stout they were, particularly when pulling heavy loads.

I have only tried to pull with my oxen. I used them regularly for logging, moving any load that I ever had a need to move. I never trained them for “pulling” because I was mostly interested in the work.

I was always amazed at how different it is to be in front of a crowd trying to pull concrete, as apposed to being alone in th woods trying to perform a task that has real meaning to me.

I was always really self conscious in front of all those people, and my animals were unconvinced of my leadership. I am not a competitor, and I could never really feel a lot of motivation to get them to pull.

It was a good experience though, but I really felt out of place with others who by and large ONLY work their animals when training for pulling. Not a bad bunch though, with the exception of a few knuckleheads.

It has definitely turned into a semi-professional sport around here, where very little emphasis is placed on workability. I have some interest in the farmer/logger pull, logs on a scoot, or obstacle/working classes. I think it would be great to see some more growth in this type of competition.

Carl

[Hal]

Hello all,

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies. Biological Woodsman, what would you consider the “serious pulling circuit”? Would a pull put on by the Southern Draft Horse Association be such an event? I am a novice and I would like to go to more draft-horse oriented events, but I don’t want to go to a dishonest or egoistic event that does not work in the horses’ best interest.

[Gabe Ayers]

Well I’m not really sure about the Southern Draft Horse Association, but they may be a pulling horse group more than a general draft horse association.

I don’t want to criticize their efforts, because just like the Bud Clydes, they are giving draft horses a place in the public eye and giving draft horses something to do. I would have to say I hope I have friends in that group too.

But these folks are serious about winning and are no different than any other professional level sport. I guess some qualifiers of being a serious pulling circuit are how much money do they pay to win and how far people travel to compete.

I had a TV reporter interview me once at a big time pull, (back before I stopped going long distances – just to be out classed). and he asked did I think the animals were abused and drugged. My response was that they were probably about as abused and drugged as the audience watching it or the general human population, no more, no less. They aired it… got a few comments, but back then I wasn’t as public as now…

Then there was a very proper lady came up to me once at a small pull and said you look like a reasonable man (duh…what?) – don’t you think pulling these horses is cruel? So I took my hands and made a square shape on my horses rump and said Maim, just imagine this is a can of Alpo, do you think
Duke would rather be in that can or here doing this with us? My point being this is something for horses to do, although not as undeniably beneficial as being the power source for restorative sustainable forestry, but a place on this earth as a useful living creature, which is better than disappearing altogether.

If you want to avoid dishonesty and ego, you may have to avoid most human sports activities altogether or maybe most human activities period.

Most human sports have the element of judging/referees/umpires, etc involved….that makes it subject to the most important player not actually being a player… not to mention additional honesty and ego questions…

I think the element of community that Carl speaks of is more of what horse pulling means to us small time fellows. That does make it a valuable cultural experience and just more fun. People are happy – glad to be there, friendly and usually helpful in any way possible. It is a group experience when kept to a local regional level.

If you are close to any advertised pull it is probably worth going, I would.

Hope this doesn’t make to many folks mad… got to get off here, watching PBR…..

[Hal]

The most recent post by “humble” was quite unnecessarily polarizing. Please calm down.

What experience has lead you to believe that this is such a terrible sport? Some explanation would be helpful.

[Howie]

Sorry Humble but you pulled my chain.
I have never pulled a horse for sport but I have been involved with horses and oxen for well over 70 years. I have found that 99% of these people that are complaining about animal abuse do not have a clue about what they are complaining about.
If that horse is going to win.
1 He must have the attitude and will.
2 He must get proper exercize EVERYDAY.
3 He must get proper diet EVERYDAY.
4 He must get proper health care Everyday.
5 And the list goes on and on.
The horse that can be FORCED to give his all just does not exist.

[Howie]

Sorry Humble but you pulled my chain.:mad:
I have never pulled a horse for sport but I have been involved with horses and oxen for well over 70 years. I have found that 99% of these people that are complaining about animal abuse do not have a clue about what they are complaining about.
If that horse is going to win.
1 He must have the attitude and will.
2 He must get proper exercise EVERYDAY.
3 He must get proper diet EVERYDAY.
4 He must get proper health care Everyday.
5 And the list goes on and on.
The horse that can be FORCED to give his all just does not exist.:rolleyes:

[near horse]

I agree with Howie that to be a competative puller, you at least have to provide them with adequate if not top quality feed and housing. They are athletes. Certainly, shocking horses is reprehensible but these animals are draft animals and bred to pull.

I think the most abusive treatment is when folks have the “collector’s disease” in which they keep acquiring horses without the resources to take care of them. You end up with 20 starving horses standing in a barren pasture waiting to pass on.

[Ronnie Tucker]

i am proud to see some replys from normal people who are dealing with reality and not these fairy tale ideas that get posted on here so much of the time draft animal power is just that it is not about pets it should be about WORKING animals Ronnie Tucker tn logger

[dominiquer60]

I’ve noticed that it is often the elder/quieter/lamer teamsters that do well at the pulls that I have been to. The older farmer gentlemen type that have actually trained their animals with real work, respect and care, and can’t afford health wise to have some hot headed fearful team drag them across the arena, the woodlot or the farm. This is the type of person that expects just as much if not more from their own body than their animals (proportionally of course). Just give a look at his hands or face, they tell the story of his life, then look at his proud calm team as they walk off with the heaviest load of the night, with only the quietest of commands uttered and a light hand. A good teamster with a good pair practicing what they do best is a thing of beauty, whether it be in the arena, the woodlot or the field.

I have seen show horses that work, work horses that show, work horses that pull, and pulling horses that work, but I have never noticed a show horse that pulled or a pulling horse that showed.

Near Horse I agree with you 100% about the collectors disease thing, there are too many of those farms around home, seems like on TV there is one getting shut down every other week. There are certainly some good honest rescue organizations, but it burns me when the 20 overcrowded horses on a barren lot type start begging for money, it seems like the louder they beg the sooner you seen them on TV.

[Carl Russell]

I’ve got to agree with humble1 to some degree (the tone is unacceptable though). There are some pretty ridiculous individuals out there, who really ruin it for many others, and although I am not impressed by them, I probably should get madder than I do. There really is no excuse for those who do nothing but train their animals for pulling, and in many cases they do more harm than good for the public opinion about working animals.

The truth of the matter is though that horses that are called upon to move heavy loads in the woods can pretty much pull their guts out, especially given the terrain. Teamsters who do this kind of work, and get this kind of willing commitment from their horses, or cattle, can show up at a pull, but are usually lost in the mix. The men I learned from were/are from this school and have little or no use for the horse pulls of today, for exactly the reasons mentioned by humble1.

Carl

[Robert MoonShadow]

Humble1, I can’t tell yet if you’re just being argumentative, naturally abrasive or just really that narrow-minded. I can’t watch youtube (I’m on dialup), but it’s the same as any other media source = it’s contents are put there by people, and thus, open to propraganda, one-sided-ness, and a whole slew of other assorted manipulations. And as almost anyone knows, if you go looking for something with enough focus & intent, you’ll likely find it… but you’re talking to horse-people here: they tend to know what happens to those that wear blinders – they only see what’s right in front of them. I wonder if you’ve reached your “judgement by youtube” or have actually been to any horsepulls? If you’ve been to them, how many? It takes more than one incident to form an accurate assessment of the whole, yet if you’ve been to many & saw only abuse, why did/do you go & thus contribute support to what you seem to hate?
PS – A tip on basic human interrelationship: if you want to ‘convert’ people to your point of view, it takes persuasion – hopefully logic-based, but emotional will work – but spewing negativity onto your audience has never been very effective for getting them to see things your way. If you missed that lesson in kindergarten, then may I suggest that you check out the book “How to Win Friends & Influence People”?

[Author]

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