Horse Pulls

[Hal]

How can you tell when a teamster is pushing their horses too far and being abusive? Horses are supposed to work hard when pulling, aren’t they? I am sure that this seems like an obvious and dumb question to some out there, but I am a novice and I have no idea. Obviously (I guess) whipping or pushing a horse is bad, but what other signs should you look for to find abusive or uncaring teamsters? I certainly wouldn’t want to associate myself with any.

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. There certainly is a lot of disagreement on this forum, and it can be discouraging to someone starting out, but I am sure that everyone here just has the animals’ best interests at heart. Right?

[dominiquer60]

Hal, I am fairly new to this group of horsemen, but I have met quite a few of them face to face and I can’t think of a nicer group of people to associate with. We have a lot in common, even the ones that I don’t agree with 100% of the time, come to think of it that is everyone, can you imagine how dull life would be if we all had the same ideas.:D

Erika

[Carl Russell]

Disagreement is not bad thing. In fact, I try to engage in discussion just to hear/read other view points. It’s intolerance of differing views and negative personal appraisal that squelch the chance to learn from each other.

I know that if you are looking to find answers to help you make decisions, disagreement can seem unproductive, but it is reality, and there are as many answers as there are people doing a particular thing.

Carl

[jen judkins]

Hal, Let me just say up front that horse pulls don’t really interest me much, but I have been to a few and have friends that are quite successful all up and down the eastern seaboard pulling with thier horses or oxen.

Horse pulling is a HUMAN endeavor (as is plowing or trail riding or even skijoring) and is subject to man’s tendency to put their own interests first. Even a farmer has to face their own agenda when developing a working relationship with horses or oxen. Its up to the teamster to, as you say, keep ‘the animals’ best interests at heart’. All things being equal, I find farmers and loggers who use draft animal power, who have a natural tendency to work with nature and not against it, generally have an easier time finding the balance between getting work done and keeping their animals happy and healthy.

Its interesting to me that those teamsters (I know) who excel in pulling (competitively/financially) don’t use their animals for anything else. My neighbor is very successful at oxen pulling and he has a big farm. I watch him spend hours with his oxen pulling big cement blocks around. In fact, their whole driveway is full of these blocks, all different sizes. It bugs me that he doesn’t have the imagination or the inclination to actually do some real work with these animals (and trust me their is plenty to do).

The other guy I know breeds, raises and trains the ‘free for all’ horses. These horses, all belgians, are absolutely freakish in size…some weighing in at 2600-2800 lbs. He’s a good horseman, works his horses regularly and the training is evident at pulls. His horses are calm, wait for the command to move off, pull the load together and barely break a sweat. So while I respect him for his ability to produce good working horses, I simply wonder ‘why?’ It seems like a waste of good horsepower. But just like racing cars, playing baseball and running marathons..its what ‘humans do’ and it involves alot of money in many cases….a recipe for corruption if you ask me.

Most of the competitors at these meets have horses that are undertrained, unconfident and completely overfaced. Its clear the teamsters have tipped the balance between the working relationship and their egos…in the wrong direction.

But I think it is wrong to say that horse pulling is the only venue that you see abuse or bad training or unhappy horses. Just look at the racetrack or the dressage ring or the show jumping arena. There are working relationship’s that exemplify good horsemanship and those that don’t. Its more about what the ‘person’ in the equation brings to the relationship and less about what the task at hand is, be it pulling a load, plowing, logging, racing or jumping.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Hal, I sometimes wonder how this forum is perceived by a novice teamster. I think if you read most threads carefully you will find the places were different ideas match up with something already said. Often two ideas are expressed very differently, but actually share an important concept. I think the power of the forum is to look for places where the different contributors ideas fit together.

As for recognizing when a teamster is abusing their animals, I would suggest you concentrate on teams at work in the woods and farm. That is not to say these animals can’t be abused as well; but it is usually the result of ignorance or meanness, and not the added desire to win. I have said before, if you don’t have enough experience to recognize every minute skill that a teamster is using to manage their team, look at how the team is responding. Your gut instinct should tell you if the animals are calm, stand quietly, and work together when asked. These are teamsters you might try to learn from. In my experience horses and mules don’t really benefit from a raised voice, so if someone is yelling or shouting, that is another clue.

[Iron Rose]

Humble !!!! Different areas of the country have different rules for pulling. Can’t say what the rules are for those Pulls , but in the mid-west they would be disqualified on the spot. Abuse is not allowed and the puller can be banned from any other competition for it.

Pulls in the upper Mid-West are governed by an association with explicit rules about using lines, whips,or other devices on horses. Most pulls you or your hookers are not even allowed to touch your horses. There are three judges for each pull, if the judge doesn’t call an infraction other pullers will call it. If the judge continues to not enforce the rules he will be replaced.

A horse can only pull what he has heart to do and no amount of abusive tactics can make him stronger. A good horseman and puller once told me “that beating a animal never made him any stronger so why would I want to”.

The videos that you referred to are not the normal and are there to fuel some self centered agenda. Get to those who really love the sport. Don’t judge everyone by a few bad examples they are in every sport and they are the ones that get the attention.

[Hal]

Hello again,

Thanks for all of the continuing comments. I did not mean to say that disagreement is all bad. It is just sad to see people start bickering and being extreme in their views on the forums. And I certainly hope that I didn’t suggest that teamsters are unpleasant people, because I didn’t mean to.

[OldKat]

@Biological Woodsman 6178 wrote:

Well I’m not really sure about the Southern Draft Horse Association, but they may be a pulling horse group more than a general draft horse association.

I don’t want to criticize their efforts, because just like the Bud Clydes, they are giving draft horses a place in the public eye and giving draft horses something to do. I would have to say I hope I have friends in that group too.

But these folks are serious about winning and are no different than any other professional level sport. I guess some qualifiers of being a serious pulling circuit are how much money do they pay to win and how far people travel to compete.

I had a TV reporter interview me once at a big time pull, (back before I stopped going long distances – just to be out classed). and he asked did I think the animals were abused and drugged. My response was that they were probably about as abused and drugged as the audience watching it or the general human population, no more, no less. They aired it… got a few comments, but back then I wasn’t as public as now…

Then there was a very proper lady came up to me once at a small pull and said you look like a reasonable man (duh…what?) – don’t you think pulling these horses is cruel? So I took my hands and made a square shape on my horses rump and said Maim, just imagine this is a can of Alpo, do you think
Duke would rather be in that can or here doing this with us? My point being this is something for horses to do, although not as undeniably beneficial as being the power source for restorative sustainable forestry, but a place on this earth as a useful living creature, which is better than disappearing altogether.

If you want to avoid dishonesty and ego, you may have to avoid most human sports activities altogether or maybe most human activities period.

Most human sports have the element of judging/referees/umpires, etc involved….that makes it subject to the most important player not actually being a player… not to mention additional honesty and ego questions…

I think the element of community that Carl speaks of is more of what horse pulling means to us small time fellows. That does make it a valuable cultural experience and just more fun. People are happy – glad to be there, friendly and usually helpful in any way possible. It is a group experience when kept to a local regional level.

If you are close to any advertised pull it is probably worth going, I would.

Hope this doesn’t make to many folks mad… got to get off here, watching PBR…..

… for one of the truest statements ever made, anywhere on any board is highlighted in bold italics, above. So true, so very true. Sometimes that is EXACTLY the way I feel. I have given up entirely on pro sports for this reason. Don’t need non-sense that goes along with the actual on the field activities.

When I leave work I just want to work with my horses, check my cows and RELAX; no people, no TV, no radio, no cell phone … nothing, just me and my “critters”. In fact, I was thinking about having a bumper sticker made that says; “I like most cows I ever met and every horse & dog I ever met better than most people I ever met”. Then I remembered that I don’t do bumper stickers, so I let it slide!

[Robert MoonShadow]

Okaayyy, so you’re on a rant, then. But you’re laying it on a group of good people that you don’t know, nor want to know, since they’ve listened & responded in politeness. So then, my response to your opinion is:
@humble1 6299 wrote:

to bad I don’t care, some times the truth hurts and so be it.

[J-L]

I don’t go to many pulls but I haven’t seen any abuse to speak of. I’m sure it can happen. I do like the pulls and look for teams that I think are broke and quiet just to see how they do compared to the lathered up nervous kind. Seems like they do better many times.
Like has been stated before, you’ll find the knotheads in any horse related sport.
I’ve had to ask a little harder than I wanted to get out of some holes with my teams. I’m glad nobody was there with a camcorder.

[Hal]

It is really interesting to see the repeatedly virulent and angry comments of humble1. I cannot understand why there is such a difference in this user’s angry comments about horse pullers and in the much more moderated response of other posters. Perhaps humble1 just fell in with a very bad group and cannot imagine because of that experience that others are different? I am sure that humble1 has not met every horse puller in the world. Just a thought.

I am sorry to hear that humble1 had such a bad experience with pullers, either way. I hope that this does not make this user assume that all people who use their animals to pull loads are abusive, as that seems to be obviously untrue based on the responses of so many others (not that I have the experience to say, but I trust the experienced words of others). I doubt very, very much that anyone on this forum has the intention to “sugar coat criminality” or hose abuse.

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;6258 wrote:

……Its interesting to me that those teamsters (I know) who excel in pulling (competitively/financially) don’t use their animals for anything else. My neighbor is very successful at oxen pulling and he has a big farm. I watch him spend hours with his oxen pulling big cement blocks around. In fact, their whole driveway is full of these blocks, all different sizes. It bugs me that he doesn’t have the imagination or the inclination to actually do some real work with these animals (and trust me their is plenty to do)……

Just want to say if that is who I’m thinking it is, besides being a successful puller, he is one of the best ox teamsters in the region, married to another one, and time was, when he had time, you could find him in the woods quite often with his steers.

Carl

[jen judkins]

Carl, I was triing to make a point without ‘alerting the media’:p

and that is, that at some point the competition of pulling becomes the end-point and not representative of the process for getting work done. I think that is unfortunate, is all…especially for a gifted teamster. There’s only so much time in the day though:rolleyes:

[Carl Russell]

Agreed:D

Carl

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