horse questions

[bivol]

hi!
this is my first time posting in horse section ( mostly oxen and mules), and not being a horse person, but understanding my lack of knowledge may lead to my prejudices on brother horse, i would like to ask some questions.

first, my intrest in horse is a fairly practical one: horses of a few years of age, unlike oxen, can be bought, and this means thery can be trained for work immediatly. i consider one day, if i decide to own a horse, to have a middle sized horse of a local draft or pack breed, which i would use for pulling cart, plowing and riding

my questions are about a middle sized horse

can it live only on hay while not working hard(pulling cart,…)?
how many percent of its body weight of grain does it need when working hard?
horses are scittish by nature. how can one
how to prevent colic (overeating) both in stall and in pasture.
how often do hoof problems occur?

i had in mind something like this.

[Kristin]

Hi Bivol —

In answer to your first question, yes, they can generally live on hay alone, and depending on the quality of your hay and pasture, and the genetics of the horse, they may never need grain. I know some others here are expert on rotational grazing of horses and may want to comment on how much work their horses do without grain. We do give our horses a little grain when they’re working very hard.

Colic is not a problem we have faced. My sense is that some horses are predisposed to it, and luckily we have not had one of those. Good parasite control helps prevent some types of colic.

Hooves need trimming, which you can learn to do yourself. A horse with naturally good hooves is a lot easier to maintain than one prone to problems.

Hope this helps you get started. Let us know how it goes. What breeds or types are available in your area?

-Kristin

[bivol]

thank you for your reply. well im from croatia, ex yugoslavia.
we have few breeds of horses:

1. murinsulaner.

a quality horse from the northen province. used for draft. was created from crossing indigenous warmblood mares with heavy draft horses, notably the noric horse. now critically endangered but there is a decent population in hungary.

2.posavian horse.

this hardy horse has been traditionaly bred and kept in wetland pastures in the region around sava river. notable is that historical attempts of “improving” were countered by nature and life in his habitat. these horses were kept on pasture from the time the snow melted to the first snow. in winter they were kept on hay and corn straw. it is a compact and muscular horse. it is calm obedient and good-natured.
if i would have a horse this would be my second choice.

croatian coldblood

i must admit, it is wierd that a country of 4.5 million people has its own coldblooded horse. it is strong although smaller than a belgian or percheron. thay were used for logging and plowing and for hauling foodstuffs, from the agricultural areas around it to the capital Zagreb. another special trait is its colour. it can be twocolour. this breed is today among the most numerous horse breeds in croatia, counting above 1,500 horses.

these are main horse breeds of croatia. we also have the local lipizzan variety, which is heavier than most lipizzan lines. thay were used by peasants and thiched in pairs to plow fields.
than there is croatian warmblood, ugly as sinn. i swear i havent seen an uglier horse.
we also have the croatian trotter.

and last but not least, bosnian mountain horse (or pony). this is my first choice for horse. yes it originates in bosnia, but it is the hardiest horse in this area. it is used as draft, pack and ride animal. they are still used to pack firewood outside forests where machinery can’t go.

they are about 13 h high, weight about 300-350 kilos, or about 700 pounds, can carry about 120 kilos or about 220 pounds. in fact, carrying such a load on mountain passed and coverind a set distance within a given time is a test for further breeding.

i hope you enjoyed!

[Kristin]

Wow, Bivol, thanks for that. Fascinating to see horses from another part of the world. DAP has gone international! The picture of the Bosnian mountain pony was too big for my poor little dial-up connection, but I get the idea. Sounds like you have some good useful horses to choose from. I would think that the traditional breeds you’ve listed would offer you some good hardy genetics.
all best,
Kristin

[TBigLug]

Here’s a more dial up friendly version of the pic. Nice looking horse.

Bivol,
I think any of these horses would work for you. Our horses survive on hay alone. We give them grain when they’re working heavy. Feet are not a problem if they stay worn down or get good trims on them. Colic, like Kristin said, is kind of hit or miss depending on the horse.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[OldKat]

bivol,

Thanks for the interesting post. I guess sometimes I am guilty of thinking only of the breeds that I am already familiar with & forget that there are other good options in other parts of the world.

Regarding your choices; several other people probably more knowledgeable than I have weighed in, so I will too.

I’d think that if I were in your situation I would probably first select an individual from a breed known to be hardy in your environment. I see people that disregard this all of the time in my extreme climate, as far as cattle go. They pick a breed because “that is what grandpa had in (some other region)” and then are surprised when the animal doesn’t thrive in this area. I can’t help but think that this would apply to horses as well.

Second, I’d pick one that I thought would thrive on the resources that are available to me. No point picking an individual, or breed, that you will have to “baby” to survive your local conditions.

Third, I would pick from a breed that has a large local population base. More choices = better chance of finding one that suits you. Then again, you may be interested in helping to preserve an endangered local breed or strain. There is value in that, I must admit. Still this would fall further down the list of my priorities.

Also, while I don’t think you mentioned if you prefer a mare or a gelding, keep in mind that if you pick something that is rare in your area you will have a harder time finding a second one if you ever decide to have team or a stallion to breed your mare to if you are thinking that you want a mare.

and Fourth. Since you have said that horses are not your strong suit, I would pick one from a breed that is known to be tractable (manageable and easy to work). No point wasting your time on an individual that doesn’t have the physical size, strength and temperment it will take to do the work you want done.

Regarding feeding hay to non-working animals. Keep in mind what hay really is. It is just a cured form of some type of forage. We put it up in that fashion for storage into a time of year when it won’t grow, or for ease of transport or whatever other reason (real or imagined) that we may have. The point I am trying to make, is that horses are grazers. In their feral state they survive on nothing but grass (or forbs, etc). So when we put them in a domesticated situation, they still are grazers. They may like grain, and they may need the energy it will produce to do really hard work. Still, absent the high energy requirement of steady work they SHOULD be kept on grass and or hay. I say this, admiting that mine are kept in a dry lot situation because I have no pasture nearby to where I keep the horses. Ideally, they would be on pasture nearly all of the time I am not using them.

Sounds like you are thinking about all of these things anyway. Please update us if and when you make your pick.

[chestnutmare]

:)• The Horse magazine has printed a number of articles over the years concerning the results of research on the digestive system of the horse and the effects of high carbohydrate diets… that is, diets that include a large proportion of grain. One of the interesting points brought out in one article was that feeding too much grain actually reduced the caloric value of the whole ration. Other problems associated with too much grain include colic, ulcers, laminitis, chronic acidosis, and behavioral issues such as cribbing among others. The physiological reasons for all these problems are highly complex, yet all related to the structure and function of a horse’s gut. One study indicated that the risk of colic increased 4 1/2 times when horses were feed moderate to large amounts of grain. Without exception, these articles stress that the mainstay of a horse’s diet should be fiber, as in forage, as that’s what the horse’s digestive system is made to process. As stated in one article, “The primary objective of digestive health is to provide feeding strategies that optimize the function of horse intestines.” Unless a horse is in very heavy work, most horses should not be fed any grain at all. Some horses benefit from grain, but they are the exception, not the rule, and there may be better, healthier alternatives for keeping weight on a horse that has high energy requirements. They mention oils or rice bran, or highly digestible super fibers such as beet pulp or soya hulls. Many recreational horse owners feed grain out of habit, or simply because they “think” their horses need it because everyone else feeds their horses grain, when in fact their horses would be better off without little or no grain.

• Generally, a horse requires a daily food intake of 3% of their body weight. If given adequate hydration colic should not be a problem. The problem that many grain feeders experience with colic in horses is a lack of adequate hydration. Grain swells in the gut. Beet pulp is soaked in warm water for a prescribed period of time to absorb water and swell. In this case, there is no worry about colic as the horse receives plenty of hydration with this type of feed. With plenty of readily accessible drinking water, colic should not be a problem. There are other reasons for colic i.e. twisted colon; but impaction colic can be controlled by proper hydration and good feeding practices.

• Yes, horses have a fear flight response. Part of training is using that natural response in order to get them to do what you want them to do. Positively reinforced good behavior or proper responses usually result in the development of good habits. Negatively reinforced (an appropriate discipline within 3 seconds of a bad behavior) without anger or nagging, effectively breaks a horse of bad behavior. Like humans, some horses are quick learners and others are slow. You will have to work with what you’ve got. Dangerous behavior, biting, striking, rearing, kicking should not be tolerated. Someone could be easily injured.

Some horses have such excellent feet that they do not have problems. I suppose that is a function of breeding, food and environment. Most horses do better bare foot, without shoes but some require some shoeing usually when they are in heavy work.

I appreciate your post and am quite interested in what you are planning to do with your horse.

[bivol]

hi everyone, sorry for overseeing this till now!
and OldKat and Chesnutmare, thank you for your input!

well, i’m still not in position to get a horse, and for a few years i won’t be, till i graduate, but one reason why i’d get it would be its speed over an ox, IF i manage to buy land on level ground, and second, as mentioned above, it can be bought adult.
of uses it would be carting definitely, plowing, even if i’d have to make a suitable plow, i studied the chinese plow designs and find them quite good.

overall, i’d like a horse that is the best ratio of price to gain. i don’t care how it looks as long as it gets the job done, and it would help to be as calm as possible, which is a strong point of horses here.

i don’t know if i’d pick a draft though, maybe a cross-breed, or that bosnian horse… they’re unbreakable…

[Jean]

@bivol 13893 wrote:

or that bosnian horse… they’re unbreakable…

by that do you mean you can not break one to work, or they won’t breakdown by working too hard?

[bivol]

sorry, too late again!… later than usually 0.0

i meant bosnian horsesare really tough!

in fact, the selection process was done by making horses do a marathon race (with riders, ofcourse) of about 100 kilometers of up-and-down mountain terrain in Bosnia, and only those who made it would be kept for further breeding at the breeding center.
it’s also a no-fuss horse that will stand adverse climate, scortching sun, rain, snow drifts, and poor management and feed, and often (unfortunately) abuse.

anyway, some pics of what they (and posavians) are used for, aside from meat production:(:

every load is around 200 kg, that’s around twice a large man.
they haul out about 40-50 cubic meters of beech firewood every day.

bosnians are tought, but posavians are stronger, and well used to mountains even if they’re a swamp horse.

[Author]

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