Living in a small house

[Does’ Leap]

I would like to add that the real benefit of a yurt to us was that we actually moved it, living on two different properties. If we were trying to establish ourselves on our permanent piece of land i think a small cabin is more durable and less expensive than a yurt.

Kristan

[near horse]

Hey dlskidmore,

Another route to go is to build a shop first, live in part of it while you build the house. I wish I would have put up a shop BEFORE doing the house. It would have made things so much easier (storing material, dry, windless warm bugfree place to work ….) It’s hard to sell to the family when they’re itching to get into a decent living space and you’re wanting to build a shop.

I know of some folks who parked a travel trailer (camper) in the shop – a self-contained bedroom/kitchen AND all the extra space of the shop.

Good luck. You need to recognize what can suit your needs and budget best.

[Scott G]

@goodcompanion 20066 wrote:

People overwinter in yurts in climates colder than new york state. They are small and easy to heat. A double layer of canvas holds in more heat than you’d think.

Yurts are great, I stayed in one for a few days (canvas on a platform) when it was getting down to -20F at night and only +10F during the day. I had the record for getting that puppy up to 98F with the wood stove. Cold was not an issue, we had to crack the door. With an airtight stove you can stoke it, shut it down, and keep one of them ~50F on the inside when you are gone. The double-wall with the dead air space in between makes it much warmer than a wall tent. I use to spend up to 8 months a year in a wall tent and did OK. When I was younger a lot of young families would live in a teepee until they got their cabin built. As far as visitors & relatives, if they are into it they will pitch in and help you build. If not and they either complain or won’t visit, you’ve already established a natural selection program.

My dad has lived in a 30′ camper on the back forty in the woods for 14 years now and is very comfortable.

When I first hauled my young wife up the hill to our cabin in progress my father-in-law came out to visit. He was ready to pack her suitcase and take her to town. After I got his rear end down into the trench to help where we were jack-hammering out for the water line in 2′ of very wet snow, he wouldn’t take her away. He felt too invested in the project at that point…

The only problem with a yurt, if you have small children, when you tell them to go sit in a corner it baffles them. 🙂

Move into something you can eat & sleep in and that can be heated with wood, get a portable mill, and start building. In a few years you’ll have a home on the piece of property that you really wanted.

[dlskidmore]

@Scott G 20094 wrote:

Move into something you can eat & sleep in and that can be heated with wood, get a portable mill, and start building.

Yeah, the more we think about it, the more we think our first structure will be a garage. Maybe a canopy first, or if there’s lots of saplings about, make a hoop structure with a cheap tarp.

I think the presence of a woodlot will drastically affect my desire to build myself. If I can pull all the wood from my own land, especially if it’s hardwood, that suddenly opens up a world of opportunities, and multiplies the value of any tool I invest in. We currently have basic woodworking tools, but we’d need a portable mill for framing lumber & floors, and a planer for cabinetry.

But before investing in tools, I need to invest in a forester consult. I want every species identified, problem trees marked, and develop a real plan for harvesting. I’m especially interested in preserving sugar maple, oak, and chestnut for tree products other than lumber.

[blue80]

Can also check out http://www.tinyhouseblog.com

We moved to Wyoming and lived in an army tent while we built a 34 by 34ft house, with a full attic truss (the ICF walls go past the floor system 30 inches then up on a slope so the entire upper floor is usable) We only pay property tax on whatever has 6 ft. of headroom…. We showed up with 4 helpers, some family and within a week everybody was gone. Dad broke his arm. Employee had family issues. Father in law wasn’t up to the 100 degree heat, which ended up lasting over 20 days straight…..Wife was 6 months pregnant when we showed up, and we had 2 others 3 yrs and 1 yr old….
Got the place warm and dry, but not pretty, before the baby came!
If we had to do it over again, we wouldn’t:D Sometimes is better that we don’t know everything, else we wouldn’t start anything…

We lived in the upper attic truss for over a year and downstairs was unfinished storage/animal kingdom.

I’d recommend looking at crawlspace options, especially “tall crawlspace/short basement” that is properly insulated and conditioned to eliminate mold, mildew, rising damp issues often associated with below grade living. Look at the extra expense to put in something with 4-6 ft. of headroom, which isn’t much extra expense as usually 48 inches of frost protection is responsible building methodology. This makes a non taxable living space for seasonal clothing, extra equipment, canning/food storage, and even a nice place to camp out when people visit or on the hot days. We buillt one for a doctor who rebuilt antique car engines down their, and one who put recliners and a home theatre down their also. Some put acces to the crawlspace from a closet, and usually we put a well in the garage with an insulated door to access the crawlspace area. A couple inches of concrete floor over visquine gives you a great “rat slab” and easy way to roll things around on a dolly down their. Also a great tornado shelter.
Look at using insulating concrete forms for your structure, at least below grade. No dew point within the wall cavity and a nice way to DIY a concrete foundation/structure.

At the end of the day, its your house. Nobody else HAS to like it!

Kevin

[dlskidmore]

@blue80 20120 wrote:

At the end of the day, its your house. Nobody else HAS to like it!

Well, I started out this thread trying to figure out if I would like it. 🙂

@dlskidmore 20049 wrote:

What are the pros/cons of a small house? Any of you manage children of both genders sharing a room? Storage hints? Managing guests/holidays?

[blue80]

;)ok you win, back to the original post.

Pros of a small house include:
Less cost
Less time to build
Less time needed to clean it
Less inclination to hoard junk
Less overhead to heat and cool
Less taxes
Less insurances
Less environmental footprint

Cons:
Can’t get away from your spouse/kids as easy. but that is what the HUGE Barn/heated workshop and outdoors is for!

We have intergenderational bedroom arrangements (I think I just made up a new word) and so far they like it, though it’s hard to get them to sleep sometimes. It’s fun to see the littlest trying to learn from the older ones including how to make the bed, put away clothes, get dressed, etc. But I guess that goes for bad habits too:eek:
We have 3 bedrooms so can split them up later; Our oldest son, 6 has decided he should now be with his brother, 8 months old, because “boys with boys, and girls with girls is how it should be”
All the realtors I’ve talked to say a 3-1 even with small bedrooms will always outsell a 2-2 (and even a 2-1 with big bedrooms) for resale purposes. And bathrooms are expensive space…

We plumbed for two kitchens, two bathrooms. two laundrys, basically breaking our house it into 2 apartments with separate entrances if we have to so we can take care of the parents etc. in the future or rent out half in the meantime for some income. Maybe we will make the downstairs into a store, dunno yet.

As far as parents visiting, when they are here we try to go somewhere else or work extra hard and knock out some capital improvement projects. They have all gone crazy since becoming grandparents:confused:
If I did it again, I’d make a heated tack room in the barn/shop with W.C. and pullout couch for guests and keep the house single story and smaller….
I heard a theory of how we all miss out because in society today, kids are put with their own age group through school, and rarely spend time regular time learning and living with a mixed generation group. Theory being that 5 year olds that hang out play and learn with 12 year olds and parents and the elder generation in a regular day to day setting will be more community minded and aware of others needs. Interesting and common sense probably. Oops, got off track again their;)

[dlskidmore]

@blue80 20130 wrote:

I heard a theory of how we all miss out because in society today, kids are put with their own age group through school, and rarely spend time regular time learning and living with a mixed generation group.

I don’t mind the off topic sides as long as we make it back to the beginning occasionally. 🙂

I keep pondering the question of schooling, and what would really be the best solution, I see pros and cons to public school, private school, and homeschooling.

If money was no object, I’d found my own private school. It would be an association of one classroom schoolhouses, each of which had one big-school facility, like a computer lab, chemistry lab, or swimming pool. You’d go to whichever school was in walking distance from your house, but a bus would be available to move kids between schools to use a different facility for an hour or two each day.

The next best thing might be to see if I can home school the kids and have them go into the public school once a week to experience gym and science labs. But that could be cruel, public school kids can be brutal to those who are different, if you’re not lucky enough to be considered cool-different.

[Carl Russell]

While we were building our 2500 sqft log home we lived in my “Love Shack” (an old post and beam corn crib that I retrofitted to live in back in the 80’s). We had a six year old, a one year old, and Lisa was pregnant. We lived in the 12’x18′, story and a half cabin for about six months, until Bazel was born.

We all slept in one bed, a queen mattress on the floor, and watched a lot of video tapes at night. We had electricity, but we carried water, and used the shower at my mom’s, until we had the new house plumbed and heated. Our stay in the corn crib lasted from Sept. – March, and it was a cold and icy winter. we used our window sills as a fridge, freezing fruit at night if we weren’t careful.

All-in-all it was an adventure. We knew it would only be temporary, but it lasted a few months longer than we had planned. It was a testament to the strength of our relationship. It is doable, but since we’ve been in the big house we’ve completely filled it with people and stuff… hard to imagine living for very long in a small home with kids.

I have a friend who raised three kids in Yurts 1 mile walk from the main road. They had a communal yurt, and three more for individual living spaces. He raised them all to college age right there, growing their own food, etc. He built a small two story garage/office next to the road where he had power for his office, and to run a couple of freezers. He parked his truck there, had a workshop, and when the kids walked to the bus in the morning they would wait there in the bitter cold.

There are as many solutions as there are situations.

Carl

[near horse]

When my wife and I moved here 20+ yrs ago, our kids were 3 (boy) and 4 (girl) yrs old. As I mentioned earlier, while not a corn crib, like Carl’s, we lived in a 16×40 old house that was rundown and used as a hunting cabin for the previous 20 yrs. My kids had to share an 8 x 7 ft room (bunkbeds) for about 7 yrs – and that was about as long as they could handle it. In fact, they moved into their own rooms in the unfinished “new house” before we (wife and I) did. No heat etc out there but it was their space.

Living in the smaller space had its challenges – primarily related to trying to keep “stuff” safe and dry.

IMHO – kids can adapt to situations pretty well (better than us old farts). The downside – the “pressure” (even self-imposed) to get the new house built w/ limited time and resources. It took A LOT longer than I had anticipated. Good luck.

As far as school goes, it’s a crap shoot. There are good (and bad) teachers in public & private schools – the good ones know and love what they’re teaching, the others let the book publishers decide what/how to teach. Therein lies one of the problems w/ homeschooling – you can get the curriculum from a publishing company but IMHO no one person is passionate and knowledgable about all areas of education. And it certainly helps to be exposed to ideas/concepts that challenge one’s principles ( they can reinforce or change those beliefs).

[dlskidmore]

@near horse 20141 wrote:

The downside – the “pressure” (even self-imposed) to get the new house built w/ limited time and resources. It took A LOT longer than I had anticipated.

Yeah, that’s the biggest factor. We could live in the city while building a house a half hour away, but if I get pregnant, we pretty much have a 2 year timer to get out of the hood into a safer, healthier place, even if it means a yurt for the toddler to sleep in. I’d rather give up the animals and live in a studio or a tent than expose a toddler to the trash, broken glass and drug paraphernalia on my sidewalk.

[Simple Living]

@dlskidmore 20147 wrote:

I’d rather give up the animals and live in a studio or a tent than expose a toddler to the trash, broken glass and drug paraphernalia on my sidewalk.

AMEN to that!!

My wife and I only have 3 more years till our youngest is out of high school. We are currently looking at living smaller as well. I could go a lot smaller than what she wants to do. In the end I think we will end up around 700-1000sq ft.

Keep pushing, you will get there.

Gordon

[dlskidmore]

@Simple Living 20148 wrote:

In the end I think we will end up around 700-1000sq ft.

I keep trying to push the square footage down for primarily economic and energy saving reasons, but plans that meet all of my needs, hubby’s needs, the dogs’ needs, and future family members’ needs end up around 1500 sq ft. I’m leaning towards hiring an architect instead of buying any pre-made plans (I have no desire to study enough code to make my own plans to code) so we can get a multi-phase building plan. I don’t want to give up the dream home or the lower cost first building. I’d love to build a basic necessities house and add a master suite and great room later after the second child comes along. I’ve only seen the concept of a multi-phase building in two sites, one for yurts, one for foam dome homes. I’ve not seen any multi-phase building plans for traditional wood homes.

[reb]

I don’t have any pros or cons of small houses, but when we build our new house it will be a smaller one. You may have already seen the Katrina cottages, but if not here is a link to them. They seem to offer alot of living in a small space, and even though they were designed for the Gulf coast with a little work I think they would fit in to any New England village.
Richard

[Carl Russell]

dlskidmore;20150 wrote:

…. I’ve only seen the concept of a multi-phase building in two sites, one for yurts, one for foam dome homes. I’ve not seen any multi-phase building plans for traditional wood homes.

Contact the Yestermorrow School in Waitsfield Vermont. They specialize in just what you are thinking about. Even if you don’t want to design your own, a class there might be a great investment for planning etc. http://www.yestermorrow.org/

On the second date I decided to test my then future wife, and asked her is she would live in a log cabin in the woods. She said yes. My idea was a 16×24 with a loft, no electricity, gravity H2O, wood heat. We ended up with a 36′ diameter 2 story plus basement 8 sided log home with full off-grid electric system. Just to illustrate how the perspectives can differ.

As far as home vs public schooling. We have been HSing for 7 years, and I can tell you it doesn’t have anything to do with the information. I agree that the information is an important part, and it is important to find valid sources, but more importantly it is the freedom that we have to allow and direct our children’s exploration and learning. The current public schools are based on curricula that break learning down into prescribed levels and rates of exposure. We have taught our kids to spend the time to understand, and to go as far and as fast as they want to. They get to spend a lot of time with their parents, and on the land that sustains them. And they get to know themselves, and what it means to be a human being. In Vermont we can homeschool and send our kids to the building for classes such as music, or in truth anything like math if we can’t handle it at home.

Hope that wasn’t too much of side-track, Carl

[Author]

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