Log Arch – Includes Discussion of Different Designs and Uses

[Tayook]

Anyone interested in fabricating a log arch? I downloaded the plans from Jason’s site and sent them to a few places in my area and can not find anyone to build the thing or give me a quote.

I have not found a single arch for horses listed for sale on the internet.

Any suggestions are apprciated.

[Mark Cowdrey]

Taycook,

I don’t know if what I have would work for you, but you can check it out on my website if you want. http://www.raggedviewfarm.com.
Let me know if you have any questions.

Mark

[Gabe Ayers]

Tayhook,

Somehow it just doesn’t make sense that in these times of economic downturn that small fabricators are not interested in a project to make some money fabricating a device from a terrific set of blue prints….they must have plenty of work to not take on a project this simple and clear.

There will be several of these models for sale at the Southern Draft Animal Days event in September in Tennessee.

We have a spare one here that the fellow wants $300.00 for. It is for a team but one could fabricate shafts for a single horse.

There are all sorts of versions of devices that provide front end suspension and lessen the impact on forest soil and increase the capacity of the draft animal.

Good Luck with finding or having one made for your use. Keep shopping there are folks around that could make one in an afternoon if they would take the project on. Most of ours are made at farm shops by the people that actually use them.

Also Forest Manufacturing and Farmer Brown (http://www.farmerbrownsplowshop.com) (I think) sell them all the time. Theirs has the quick drop chain slot bar that makes it real easy to get the log off the choker chain at the landing.

[Tayook]

I thought it was odd they wouldn’t take the job either. I know nothing about welding or fabricating so all I did was forward on the plans and ask if they could build the arch. One was a business that did ornatmental staircases and gates, maybe it wasn’t thier thing and the other was a repair shop. I am rather rural and only searched for welders locally. I am sure there are plenty of people who do this in thier shops, but I do not know any welders. We know a few that can do some spot repair work, but would be intimdiated by blueprints, not to mention to busy with farm life: )

On a happy note, I’ve contacted the folks at Farmer John’s, they are actually only about and hour and 20 minutes north of us! Hopefully they will be able to help or point us in the right direction.

I have googled Forest Manufacturing before and have not found anything related to horse logging? Do you know if they have a website? I have read though a few pieces that have featured thier arches.

[CIW]

Although I would be happy to do the work after reading the last post I read a clue that told me tnat I’m not in your area of the U.S.
When an inquiry is made on a web site that has people from around the world looking in, it might yield better results if a general geographic area of the poster was disclosed.
Tayook,
Maybe you could change your profile to include that type of general information. From past experience there is a great base of knowledge here that will activate if they only know a little bit about you.

[Tayook]

We are in north central PA, very north, about two miles from the NY border.

[Carl Russell]

Tayook, in my opinion among the many options for logging arches, the type that is pictured here is by far the most functional and well designed. It is very light, I can move it around, and maneuverable. The way it is designed, you can interchange a pole or shafts with ease any time you wish. Although most of the models mentioned by others effectively lift large logs off of the ground, they also require that the teamster climb, and then ride quite high off the ground as well. The results of these designs, while increasing the lift on the log, actually place the draft so high that they compromise the draft of the horse, put the driver in a potentially unsafe location (hard to get off), and teamsters often end up driving the hitch while walking beside the arch, which is dangerous also.

This design was created by Les Barden of Farmington NH. He will gladly send you complete and accurate blue prints as well. The teamster can get on and off of the arch with ease, and can ride standing for balance on rough terrain, or seated. There is a tool box in front of the teamster for chainsaw and fuel. I built a tool box under the seat where I keep my choker puller, hard hat, tool pouch, extra chain, wedges, and kitchen sink… There is also a convenient place to carry a peavey.

I have used this cart with one horse, and with a team of horses, and a team of oxen, and have skidded as much as two full length pine trees that scaled a total of 500 bdft when all the logs were cut. I don’t mean to “Dis” any other designs, I just know that this is the best design to incorporate increased functionality, safety, and convenience for working in the woods with draft animals.

[near horse]

Hi Carl,

I would like to get a set of plans for a logging cart from Les Barden – do you mind PM’ing his contact info to me? Thanks.

Geoff

[Carl Russell]

Yep, will do.

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Mark,

I enjoyed your website, thanks for posting that. I noticed your doubletree on the Pioneer with the skidding attachment on it had been tweaked a bit. Maybe those little red horses need a little bit stouter evener on that piece.

Looking good man, keep up the good work.

[Tayook]

Found a welder that will give me a quote!!! Woooo Whooo!

I already forwarded the plans from Healing Harvest and am waiting on the others.

I think I am leaning towards the arch that Carl posted. Not sure if this will open a can of worms, but my reasoning is that my daughter would be able to ride along when skidding logs.

How do you guys feel about having children out in the woods with you? Ari does everything with us and we intend on bringing her along.

lol, should I start a new post.

[Carl Russell]

It may belong in another post, but I’ll chime in right now anyway. My kids have been and still are around me all the time when I work my animals. It is important that they learn how to be safe around me when I’m doing what I do.

That being said, there are times when they are not allowed to be anywhere near me, because it is dangerous, like skidding logs in a working situation, getting out a little wood sometimes can be OK, but the reality is that it is one thing if I have a mishap when I am alone, but my life would become a living hell (from inside my own head and heart) if I was responsible for the injury or death of one of my kids.

But if you are just starting out I would say that you are going to have enough to figure out by yourself, so play it safe, leave her to play by herself.

Carl

[Traveling Woodsman]

@Carl Russell 8477 wrote:

The results of these designs, while increasing the lift on the log, actually place the draft so high that they compromise the draft of the horse, put the driver in a potentially unsafe location (hard to get off), and teamsters often end up driving the hitch while walking beside the arch, which is dangerous also.
.

Carl, this maybe should be in another thread, but I was curious about your observations on the Barden arch. What exactly do you mean by compromising the draft? Maybe you’re referring to the angle of draft? And do you consider walking beside the arch different to walking beside a log on the ground (as far as safety goes), and if so, why? Have you ever had problems navigating over rough ground, such as rock, roots, or small logs, with the Barden arch? It looks somewhat low to the ground from the pictures. Also wondering if you’ve had much time on, say, a Fisher style, Forest Mfg., or Farmer Brown arch. I have my own thoughts, but I was curious about your perspective, since I haven’t had the opportunity to see or use a Barden style cart. I am always looking for new ways of doing things in the woods, and would be interested in what you or anyone else has to say.

[Carl Russell]

As the design of a log arch attempts to raise the hitch point to get the logs up off of the ground, so the draft has to be raised as well. The evener needs to be hitched to the cart at exactly the same height as the hitch point for the chokers so that the power of the pull is directed straight through the cart in the most direct manner, ie power efficiency.

So, there is a point where the hitch and draft are so high that the horse no longer has the advantage of lifting, which is how the horse uses it’s power. Even though the theory is that the weight is now being held up by the arch (which is the truth) so the horse shouldn’t HAVE to lift it, horses actually need to be able to lift to efficiently use their power. So there is a point above which it just doesn’t make sense to raise the hitch point, which is what I was referring to in reference to some of the very high designs of logging arches.

I have a log arch that is designed very similar to the style that Jason uses. I find that it works great, but I have to climb up and down from the seat, and there is no easy way off in case of emergency. Although I have made a place to carry the saw and peavey, I don’t have the same convenient tool boxes.

I have used the Barden cart for nearly 15 years on all types of terrain, and skidding tree length right from the stump, and as low as it looks I have only gotten hung up on one stump in all of that time. It is narrow, light, and has a low center of gravity, which really help. I have tipped it over several times though, from logs coming up over a stump, or rock, and lifting it up on one side.

I have walked beside my big log arch, and find it no more or less dangerous that walking beside a log when ground skidding. But my point about that in this context is that if you can ride, it is safer, especially if you are inexperienced, AND you have a cart such as the one I am writing about where you can get on and off very easily.

I have also used the cart in deep snow, which can be problematic, but when the snow gets packed it works great.

Every person has their own preferences, I just find that this design takes into consideration several important factors and brings them together in one implement, which makes it a superb choice in my mind.

Carl

[Traveling Woodsman]

So were you having efficiency problems when using a Fisher style arch?

After reading further, it sounds like maybe your choice of arch is more based on ease of getting on and off and convenience (tool boxes)? This is very valid, and has something to be said for it. Carrying equipment and safety are important features of any arch.

On the Barden cart, is there any way to cradle hitch a log that has a larger diameter than the height of the hitch point?

I wonder if you would be willing to PM me Les Barden’s contact info as well? There are several things I can’t make out from the pictures, and I would be interested in more information. Several of the factors intrigue me, and I always like to research new ideas and see how I might apply them advantageously.

But like you said, everyone has their own preferences and you just have to decide for yourself what factors are most important to your situation.

[Author]

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