Log Wagon

[Mike Miller]

Hello, My name is Mike Miller and I am The Rep. forPayeur Distributions in the US. We manufacture 2 horse drawn log loader trailers, one for a single horse and one for a team.I had the pleasure of exhibiting one of my 2 horse machines at this years “NEAPFD”in Tunbridge VT.
This machine has has an overall length (excluding the tongue)of 14 .5 ft..The load deck is 10 ft. long. It rides on 11Lx15 tires.
The width outside the wheels is 73in.The width between the stakes is 45in. at the bottom, and 60in. at the top.
It comes with a short (54in.) tongue with a 1 7/8in.ball hitch for transport.
The regular tongue is 10ft.long.
We use a 9hp Honda for the hydraulics. The trailer is equipped with a foot operated hydraulic brake.
This trailer weighs approximately 2500 lbs. complete. It has a load capacity of 8000 lbs.
The loader has a reach of 11 ft.and has a lifting capacity of 1500 lbs. at full extension. It is equipped with a 32 in. by-pass grapple.
We can also custom work to suit your specific needs.

For more info you can contact me at 888-821-2015 or cell 819-679-0175 or mike@payeur.com

always a pleasure
Mike Miller

[Carl Russell]

The previous post shows a good photo of the type of forwarders we have available in our area.

Simon, I would love to get detailed manufacturer info about the type you use. I just can’t find M & S Jumentum Equipment anywhere.

The drive-wheel technology really interests me, as otherwise I think that a piece of steel this size will be a lot of work unless the roads are excellent and conditions pretty flat. How well does your rig work in snow? We are getting a good snow cover this winter here in the NE. Carl

[simon lenihan]

carl, m&s jumentum do not have a web site as far as i know all info i have is a few leaflets. you have to understand that horse drawn forwarders are being developed in scandinavia for nearly 30 years and have come on in leaps and bounds over the years. They will travel through rough forests, over boulders, stumps, etc no problem without couping over. It would not have made much sense to invest heavily on a piece of kit that could only travel on flat forests roads. We do not get any snow over here, maybe a small sprinkling at times but they work them in finland and sweden where they get alot, wheel chains and light band tracks are used at times. When we get a chance we will do some recording, put it on a disc and you then can see for yourself.
simon lenihan

[Carl Russell]

Simon, the forwarder that you are describing sounds really great. I realize that Scandanavia is the place to look, but we have limited access. I hope that there is some way that we can try to share more of this info. I realize that importing is probably ridiculous, but just having a better sense of the design would be really great. Metavic has done a good job, but as you say, it just doesn’t make sense to pay a lot of money for something that is going to get hung up or requires a lot of bulldozer work before using. Thanx for all your great contributions, Carl

[Gabe Ayers]

To address/join the conversation between Rick and Simon, we also use sub contractors for the reason of not being able or interested in paying workmen’s compensation on them. We just pro rate the task and pay off the tally sheet on a per thousand board feet basis.

Yep they do work when the want, but the standards of their work are still up to the boss as they are working at a specific job, which has a clear goal, method and objective. Having to have a “track record of being a contractor” doesn’t make any sense, how does anyone get started under that restriction?
So when all the contractors in NH die will there be no more?

We do have to file a 1099 to the IRS reporting their sub contractor income, which they have to take care of their own insurance, taxes, social security and such. We have them sign a 1099 before they hit a lick. This protect us as to their being liable for their own safety. This is the only way small loggers could operate.

We still can require that they use certain equipment like personal protective gear, i.e., chainsaw protective chaps, hard hat with face and hearing protection and steel toed boots. Requiring this doesn’t make them your employees in Virginia.

I think the laws may vary slightly from state to state, but the point is that the government, lawyers and the entire system of the status quo dominant paradigm doesn’t make it easy for anyone to do anything other than what makes the rich richer and everyone else poorer…

Good exchange guys, I have seen some of Simon’s photos and the forwarder looks stout, low set and capable.

I think the harness they have available to use in Europe, is a little less sturdy that what we have in the states, or they look less rugged, particularly the collars – but the reduction of tongue weight on the horses necks is a good thing and the New England D – ring we use helps with that.

There is no doubt that Simon and sons are pulling some real logs out by what is in the photos.

I wish we could post photos on this site, or at least photos that have high definition and are large and clear enough to see well. I suspect we can, I just haven’t figured it out yet. I think I need to save them into a different file or something to get them smaller, but still clear.

Jason Rutledge

[simon lenihan]

I bought my first swedish harness secondhand 15 years ago from hans sidbach [ book, horse in the forest ] and it is still as good as new all these years on. THe swedish harness looks flimbsy but believe me it will outlast most other harness. The design has changed very little in the last 100 years and there is ex swedish army harness 50 years old still around. It is based around the principal of the d ring harness, the big advantage of the swedish harness is that it has an open bottom and should your horse put on or loose weight it can be adjusted accordingly with the bottom hames strap. Alot of folk comment on how little the measurement of draft is on the collar compared with an american collar that might have 22″ of draft. However the collar follows the contour of the shoulder and once bedded in fits like a glove. I also like the collars produced by sugar valley collar shop, jason sent me on some pictures of his suffolk team on a heavy pull with these collars fitted, you only have to look at the weight they are pulling to realise how good they are. I have never used a team on a tongue and i am in no position to give judgement, if one was working really rough ground would the tongue sway not cause the horses sore shoulders?. When working in tight confines would the tongue not be a hindrance, why are tongues not fitted with springs to eliminate tongue weight, just curious and still learning.
simon lenihan

[Carl Russell]

Simon, I use D-ring harnesses which put all the tongue weight on the jack saddle, so the horse carries it on their back. On rough ground the tongue will sway some but the shoulder is not affected as there is only constant draft (90* to the shoulder) from the front trace which is held firm as adjusted with jack saddle straps and belly girt. If the traces are hitched tight, as they should be there will not be a lot of sloppy swaying anyway. As far as maneuverability, I use a short pole, so that the traces are hitched in the first link on the heel chains, and the front hold backs are short enough so that the yoke is under the horses noses. This way if they can get their nose past an obstacle then the pole will not hit. Also the neck yoke has to be compact so that the ring does not extend too far. I use a yoke made from an old spread chain with pipe welded in, instead of wood, so I wrap the chain around the pipe to shorten the depth of the yoke.

Jason sent the photos of your forwarder. Now that’s a logging rig!!! I will try to attach them here. I haven’t had the time to explore all the options, but I know it can be done. Carl

[Dave Camire]

Rick, Make sure you really check into the workers comp requirements pertaini n to LLC or LLP. Worker’s Comp laws were recently ammended so as partners are not exempt from the requirements. A quick phone call to your insurance carrier may prevent future headaches or findin out a hard lesson down the road.

[Rick Alger]

Dave, thanks for the heads up.

[cxb100]

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