logging

[Baystatetom]

Sounds like I was doing it right. I think it just comes back to the limitations of my 2400 lb team. One of those trees was a 20″ DBH cherry that I got 3 twelves and a 10 off from and it was hung soundly in a hemlock. There was just no way my team was going to pull it out. Hence 45 minutes with a come-along. I had thought about a block and tackle rig to double the pulling strength of my steers, guess I’ll put that on my wish list.
Your right Brad, professionals like us shouldn’t hang trees or pinch saws either. Can you imagine I heard about a guy who did both at once one time.
I sell a few million bdft a year to mechanical guys who just love to pick on the forester who hangs up trees. Fact of the matter is when working with a skidder it doesn’t matter at all. Sometimes with a skidder its easier to just lean it into another tree and pull it down then it is to fell it at the wrong angle for the skid trail.
~Tom

[Carl Russell]

I find that if I cut a block of wood about 3 feet long and at least 12″ dia., lay it cross-ways to my pull, just in front of the butt of the log, run the choker up over that and to the team, I can get enough lift on the roller to pull down just about any stem that I have ever gotten hung up. Of course there are those 20″ dbh and bigger, that can be virtually impossible to move with a team, but I have yet to get a block and tackle or come-along…. I can usually find another tree in the vicinity to smack it with.

I used to get really pissed when I hung up a tree, but now I figure that anybody doing a good job of directional felling is likely to get a tree hung up from time to time. I get leery of cutters who claim they never hang one up, because it makes me think they are just going for the easy fall. When using draft animals and practicing improvement forestry, the felling should be appropriate to those objective of accessibility, and protection of the residual stand. If those goals are primary then there SHOULD be many stems that are going to be felled into places where the line is just plain difficult.

Get good at pulling them down!!!:cool:

Carl

[Gabe Ayers]

I had an interesting day in the woods today, one which got me thinking about the earlier part of this thread about which tools to use in the woods for animal powered woods work. I have a muddy spot in my main sled trail, as the snow has melted and the ground is thawing. The biggest problem is not the mud but the off angle slope of the turn at that spot. The trail runs thru a break in an old stone wall at this spot, and the slope of ground and the frozen part of the old stone wall pushes my sled at an angle perpendicular to the downhill direction of travel on the trail. Over the past couple of days I have flipped the loaded sled several times here. I tried filling up the low spot with spruce and pine sluice logs, but the runner still sinks and creates a problem, not to mention the difficult footing for the team. In a normal winter snow would have filled this gap but not this winter. Each time the sled turned over, I had to unhook the horses and skid each log down to the landing on the ground, which is not much fun for man or beast! So, after some choice words and wringing of hands, I switched to my arch. I do not usually use the arch in the winter, due to deep snow, but this year that has been no problem. I have been averaging about 1300 bf a day with the sled, and I was curious to see how the arch would compare in terms of daily totals. Today, with the arch, we pulled almost twice as much as we had been averaging. Now, this section is a bit closer to the landing and the pine here is perfect for arch loads with 3 16′ logs each trip. I made 7 trips down today, with loads of 135-410 bf each, and the total came out to be 2225 bf. The horses pulled each more easily than they had with the sled, but they had to expend more energy with more trips up and down the hill from stand to landing. In terms of my efforts, I did have to make more trips but it is far easier to use the arch where I did not have to load the pine up on the bunk. Also, it was nice to be able to skid and forward with the arch, rather than ground skidding and then forwarding with the sled. I think that this example illustrates the need to be flexible with your tools and techniques in the woods with animals. If you stick to the same tool every day you may be not making the most of your animal power. Log type and size, distance to the landing, topography, snow conditions, etc. all vary location to location and even day to day. I may go back to the sled when and if we get some more snow this winter, but for now the arch seems to be the right tool.
-Brad

[Anonymous]

I’m not a ox man but I do pull alot of trees down….:) I think Ronnie had some good advice about using a block and tackle. Its cheap to buy a short lenth of cable and block. Give your young animals all the mec advantage you can. In the long run 50 bucks for some gear that will help your steers move them trees with out getting anchored down is well worth it.

I pull most any thing down with a single horse they are all around 1700 to 1750 #s. Using some tricks as mentioned sure helps and expierence knowing the limitations of your animals. Most of the time I’ll just snap the tongs on the tree look for the best smoothest spot to drag the butt and ask for full steam ahead. Butt…. and its a big but the I’v spent alot of time building confidence and the skills into the horses. By the time its time to hook them to a hang up that I’m not too sure if it’s going to really test them around the age of 5 to 6 they should think any thing I ask them to pull will come. It’s very hard at least with horses to make your living with young ones and keep thier confidence that high. In and ideal world we would all have some seasond stock to do the hard stuff and a few up and coming young aniamals to help in the right jobs. For now I would use every method in your power that makes getting those big ones down easier.

I worked with a land owner for 2 years untill he got the better at not hanging so many. He’s quite a good cutter now. It’s not always about getting the tree to fall right to the ground some times it’s how to hang them the best way possible so theres a option to move the tree with the power you have.

Cheers Tristan

[Baystatetom]

Thanks for all the advice. I like Carl’s idea of using a block in front to get some more lift. Most of the tricks I have learned from experience don’t really apply now. I always cut trees low enough in value that I could just keep blocking off 4′ at a time or have the cable skidder rip them down. Smaller trees can often be spun out with a peavy as well. I have heard you can bore a hole with the saw and insert a pole for use as a lever but that’s not to good for a log worth a couple hundred dollars.
Mitch also hit the nail on the head when he said it is not a race. The first day I ran out there hell bent on putting a good pile of logs on the header as fast as I could. We all know that never works. I’ll just keep plugging along and hope I am smart enough to learn from my mistakes.
~Tom

[Michael Low]

I’ve thought of making up some shirts with a picture of a spruce tree hung up in some other spruces under it would say ‘we all have our hang ups.’
Michael Low

[Baystatetom]

The frost just came out of my main skid trail, I can’t believe how much harder the steers have to work. We are getting some snow now, I think Friday I am going to go out and pull all the biggest logs and leave the second and third logs for next week when the snow has melted off again.

[Baystatetom]

I have had this job done for a few weeks now. I sold a log length load of firewood and have about 10 cords of top wood bunched up on the sides of my main skid trail just waiting for when I have nothing else to do. I have also sold 3mbf of low grade soft maple to a local pallet mill, but still have 6-7 mbf of cherry logs I can’t seam to move. The one local guy who wants it can’t pay enough to get my attention. I just started trying to track down a Canadian market for it. Yet another rookie mistake I made on this job. I should have had all this figured out before I had it all stacked up on my clients lawn. I sell enough stumpage that I thought I knew what I was doing with the logs but I guess I still have some learning to do. I am negotiating with the landowner on another job now. So at least I can put what learned into immediate use.
~Tom

[Tim Harrigan]

Good luck with that. What can you get for Cherry now?

[Baystatetom]

So far the best I can do is $450/mbf on 12″ tip 10′ and longer with 3 clear faces. And that is delivered into the mill, I still have to pay trucking. I was really hoping for $150/mbf more then that, but I guess the markets just aren’t there. One of the local guys says he can only get $650/mbf for select and better lumber which translates down to $400 for the clear logs. Looks like I was working below minimum wage on this one!
~Tom

[Kevin Cunningham]

The first farm that I managed I made the mistake of calculating how much I made per hour of work. Trust me it is better to not know. Just keep working towards efficiency the money takes care of itself somehow.

[Baystatetom]

The last thousand bdft was certainly faster then the first.

[Scott G]

@Baystatetom 34449 wrote:

… but still have 6-7 mbf of cherry logs I can’t seam to move. The one local guy who wants it can’t pay enough to get my attention. I just started trying to track down a Canadian market for it…

Tom, do you guys have issues with staining leading to degrade if your sawlogs lay around in the woods and/or landing for a extended period of time?

[Baystatetom]

Things keep pretty well in the cool weather but as summer temps pick up, softwood will get wormy and stain and hardwood will end check.

[Baystatetom]

The last truck finally left the landing yesterday. Feeling kind of down hearted about the money but I managed to barter a extra carriage for my sawmill into the deal and I did learn far more then I could ever put a price on.
~Tom

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