logging arches

[Carl Russell]

Biological Woodsman;2572 wrote:

…….Skidding on the ground is dangerous, primitive, old fashioned, hillbilly, backwards,
inefficient, environmentally damaging ….., and much harder on your horses, mules or oxen. ……….The operation of a logging arch is safer, more efficient and modern. ……Yet knowing all that to be absolutely true – we still skid on the ground sometimes. Short skids on step ground can be quickly bunched downhill to be forwarded with an arch to the landing. But you better know what you are doing and have a great animal to work with. …..

Just want to throw out there a bit of caution about these statements. I know they are intended to encourage people to take horse logging to new levels of professionalism and proficiency, and I also believe that the logging arch can be a significant aspect of that.

However, I absolutely endorse working horses with loose rigging, especially one, in the woods, particularly twitching. In our area, in multi-aged softwood, and mixed wood stands there are many instances where a single horse can be applied like a surgeons scalpel. And when you are good at it, it is like a dance with a life-long partner.

There has to be along with this, an understanding of the limitations, so that this technique is not misused as Jason suggests. And I agree that it has been the method employed for many years by folks looking for quick and dirty performance.

As well, the use of other implements like sleds contribute to the toolbox of the “modern” horse-logger, making for the flexible and capable operator that we all need to strive to be if we want to present animal powered timber harvesting as a viable consideration in these modern times.

Carl

[Jim Ostergard]

I can’t add too much here but feel I’m in agreement with all Carl and Jason have written. I really like my arch and will use it as much as I can or the situation allows. I like having my saw, peavy and a number of chains handy. There are loads of situations where ground twitching fits in. Short hot yards to a road for a forwarder is one. Short twitches around a house lot is another. I’ve worked lots where skidding anything longer than 16′ will cause too much scaring of the risidual stand and have had to open things up on the ground. I have on occassion done 8′ pine pulp but not my favorite thing to do as the butt can hang up and the tail come around a do some horrific damage. When I do that now I use real long lines and am behind the 8′ stick. And lastly a really good horse is a key for sure.
However, I favor the arch over all for moving wood.
Thanks….Jim O

[simon lenihan]

what system do you use when you work on steep ground, or in a tight conifer stand with very little room, in wet boggy ground and areas where you have alot of obstructions like boulders, root plates from blown trees, etc. what i have just described is the type of terrain in which the majority of horseloggers this side of the pond work in. The logging arch has advantages but you need room to be able to manouvre it, i can not think of one wood in the past few years in which i could have used an arch. All loging work is dangerous but with ground skidding it can be minimised by working your horses loose and where you cant by working on a choke rein [ single rein ]. Is it possible to overturn an arch or be trown from it on rough ground, i would also imagine that you can skin a tree with one working in tight situations. Every wood is different and you have to adopt your methods to suit, work it the best and safest way you can and be proud of what you do, which ever method you use.
From the primitive old fashioned hillbilly, simon lenihan, [ good to be back ]

[Gabe Ayers]

Welcome to the DAP Forum Joel,

Good to have someone with a lifetime of experience that is willing to share their knowledge with this group.

Please know that I am not intending to look down on anyone for ground skidding. I do it myself regularly as mentioned. I might be one of the oldest hillbillies on this board. I certainly understand the reality of working on steep ground, which we have plenty of in the Appalachians. You are right – there is no other way to work that steep ground other than just with the horses and a loose evener. We pull log trains or multiple logs, held together with trail grabs, off ground as steeps as a cows face quite regularly. We don’t use an arch for that.

So I am a user of ground skidding when I have to – but I don’t like it as much as arch skidding.

A goal of HHFF is to educate the public about the benefits of restorative forestry. One of the benefits is the low impact on the environment provided by modern animal powered techniques. This is where the arch comes in – to provide front end suspension and the obvious benefits that device provides
to lessen the impact on the forest soils and increase the capacity of the animals and improve operator safety.

The primary effort of HHFF is to train mostly young people to do this work of restorative forestry. So the success of their efforts from the onset of going in business for themselves is very important. Most of the first start up jobs we find for our biological woodsmen are on relatively gentle sloping ground. Often they are small plots that also have short skids. But the important thing is that they are successful getting the wood to the landing safely and with limited impact on the forests.

New people getting started will be more likely to stick with it if they don’t have an accident early on in their career. This is important to the success of HHFF. So we really promote the use of the log arch for safety and efficiency. After they have more experience they can take on the steep ground if they want. As we both/all know, sometimes we don’t have a choice, that is where the wood is. But when we can, we put them on better jobs to get started and we provide an arch when our funding allows such a grant.

The demand for the service of sensitive harvesting is overwhelming. There are thousands of acres of forest available to this method that are not available to conventional mechanized harvesting. This is a good thing – for everyone.
We think that demand in our area, is the result of years of public education, demonstration and practice of modern animal powered extraction and restorative forestry practices.

Remember, the competition for access to the natural resources includes many detractors of the culture of animal power and look for every reason to call it
primitive and backward. So I am used to defending our work against those claims and being modern is important to that debate. I have been called a caveman more than once just for using animals. (actually I think most cavemen just ate animals and didn’t work them) Smart landowners see through this, but not all….especially those interested in liquidating their forested assets as quickly as possible. Meanwhile the conventional forestry interest try to dismiss, marginalize and reduce our services to production alone and we all know there is more to the forest than that. We can see the forest beyond the trees.

I also agree with the idea that some disturbance can be a good thing. Certainly some species seeds won’t germinate without contact with mineral soil, specifically eastern white pine. The forest dynamics are dependent on disturbance, but those disturbances may imitate nature and not be as heavily damaging as clear cutting and mechanized harvesting.

However I must disagree with any landowner that wants to run cattle in a natural Oak Hickory Appalachian type forest. This is a bad idea. The practice of agro-forestry can include the concept of food and fiber all at once, particularly in a savanna type forest. But a natural, mixed species, diverse, multiple age ranged forest will be healthier and more valuable without livestock freely grazing all the time.

That brings up an interesting question about sowing grass seed on skid trails.
Some state departments of forestry require this as part of their site inspection, BMP’s and closure on the job. Do they require that everywhere? The biggest problem is that allot of loggers use fescue (the cheapest grass seed) in the south which is terrible stuff and hard on wildlife, particularly young game birds. We often use yard blue grass and birdsfoot trefoil. Given a choice – I would prefer to put no seed on a skid trail but allow native vegetation to regrow. This is of course would be a modern animal powered extraction logged skid trail that has been traveled over by a log arch providing front end suspension of the log. Sometimes just some straw and pro passive water diversion with cull logs and limbs will work, particularly if the disturbance doesn’t expose an any sub soil. Our local public foresters are to busy keeping guys from running up and down creek beds with skidders to worry about our low impact restorative forestry jobs.

Thanks for posting and joining the discussion. And again, please know that I have my grandpa’s single tree and hook arrangement in my tool box at all times and will skid on the ground when I have to. I am proud to have that old hook of PaPa’s and hope I never wear it out. The swivel hook is hand forged with a nice ring on it and better than anything I could buy today, particularly with all the hardware made in China being sold everywhere.

Sincere Regards,

[Dog_River]

Hello from the Northern Rockies of BC,

This is my first post so. I am building an arch to use with my mules. I printed out the plans from Healing Harvest and was wondering if anyone here has built one and could post a photo ? I drew one up myself that is very similar.

Thanks, Dog_River

[Brad Johnson]

Hello-
I have used a number of different arch designs, though not Jason’s design. I have seen his plans, but have not seen the arch. I will say that I use an arch built by John Plowden, in Stow ME, for commercial logging (150-200 days a year), and I really like his design. Good luck with your build.
-Brad

[Eli]

Dog River if you go to the Equipment Fabrication section look at my Arch Before the Horse post I have some pictures of what I built It’s nothing fancy but I had all the steel and stuff laying around. I didn’t get to try it because one of my horses was pregnant, incidentally she had a filly last night. Eli

[Ronnie Tucker]

the arch or log cart as i call it that jason recommends is simple and works fine. his plans need not to be altered. choker chains or log grabs work best. but you can use tongs .

[carl ny]

Eli
as long as your mare is in shape you can work her lightly right up until she foals. We raked hay with my sons mare two days before she foaled. I know that in the “old days” they used to stop the team,unhitch,let her have the foal,give it time to nurse,and then hook up and go again.Those horses were in shape of course,worked every day. don’t do that if your horse is only worked lightly once a week.

carl ny

[Eli]

Carl my mare was a brood mare for years and is very out of shape and so I didnt want to chance it or should I say my daughter didn’t want me to chance it. And my other mare is very green and so am I. So I figured it was best to hold off. This sommer I hope to get every body in shape to do a little work. Eli

[carl ny]

You did the right thing..

carl ny

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