Logging Chains

[Does’ Leap]

I lost a 20′ chain the other day which I need to replace. I believe it was 3/8″. Can I get by with 5/16″ (aiming for a little lighter and less cumbersome)? I have grab hooks on both ends that I attach to shorter chains when necessary. Is there a certain chain strength I should look for?

Thanks.

George

[Jim Ostergard]

George,
Over the years I’ve found that a 7 to 8′ chocker is all that one need for most operations. I use the same hook as we do with larger skidder rigs. They come smaller I think some of the Farmi tractor winch ones will do. And the chain is smaller. I’ve stretched chain out but never broken one. I have to chains that I have one larger link attached to on the end. It is cut through on a 45 on one side so that I can slide them together and thus have 15-16′ on chain when needed.
Jim O

[TaylorJohnson]

I like the 5/16 chains if they are not just cheap ones. I like to put a bigger hook on them like a 3/8 . I use the quick links to put them together , there the ones that come in to peaces that you put together and ping the tips down, to on each side. It makes a nice clean link, no pins or any thing to catch roots or what ever when you are stuffing them under logs. They are getting tough to find but I do have a sailer’s catalog I can order them out of. It does not seem like it would matter much but if I grab someone else’s chains and use them I sure notice the difference. I am pretty funny about my chains , I don’t let any one just use them. I know every were spot on them for the most part ( madger ones that is ) and I get really attached to them. Same with mauls and axes. I have a funny build I have long arms and short legs so I cut all of my handles short to match me. I hate to see just any one grab my Axe because they almost always misjudge and swing short then swing long and hit the handle . Don’t get me wrong I will let people use my stuff to be honest some times I cringe a bit LOL. Taylor Johnson

[Carl Russell]

George, I think you’re referring to a long chain that you use behind the cart to pull logs out of the brush, then disconnect and hitch to the choker..??

I use a similar chain. I think 3/8 is bigger than I use. I have used 5/16 with little problem. Hardened links will be pretty expensive. I usually find chains that long (soft steel) at yard sales and auctions, so I have a collection of them.

They do break from time to time. Last winter I was pulling tree length white pine (3-400bf/tree) and I broke one. Nothing a repair link can’t solve.

Carl

[lancek]

Yea watch at auctions you can find good deals on chains and flea markets are a good place to! I use sec 70 1/4 inch transport chain its light but is as strong as 3/8 regular chain! Lancek

[Does’ Leap]

Thanks for the replies. Carl, you got it. This is a chain that I use on the back of my cart when I can’t easily get to a log with the cart itself. I pull, re-hitch and go from there. Sounds like I can get by with 5/16″. I

George

[Scott G]

5/16 Grade 70. I’ve never broke one yet and it’s a heckuva’ lot lighter than 3/8.

[Gabe Ayers]

Of the many biological woodsmen in our group there are just about as many combination’s of chains. Most just have two choker’s one 12-14 feet long 5/16ths common chain with a choker hook on one end, the type bought from Bailey’s or a modified cheap hook with the mouth closed with a welded piece to make just a small opening slot so the chain won’t come out as easy and the short chain usually has a slot hook (store bought) on the other end. This is the chain used most and if we need a longer chain to drag logs out of the tops and brush we hook it to the longer second chain. The second chain is 20-24 feet long with a choker on both ends. This sometimes allows us to use one chain on some bigger logs when we use the cradle hitch.

I have read that several other practitioners on here use that method of attaching to the log in order to obtain higher front end suspension on bigger logs, and decrease any potential tongue slap on a two wheeled arch. We always use this attachment method with bigger logs and when we multiple hitch.

I learned it from an old logger from Vermont that came here many years ago to learn horsemanship. He was a old school guy but hadn’t worked horses much and I won’t mention any names. But if he picked up the chain and it had a knot in it he would honestly want to quit for the day because he said a knot in the chain was “bad luck”. I laughed at that and told him the bad luck would be if you were too dumb to know how to untie the knot. He was quite skilled but hard headed about some stuff. He was very difficult (impossible) to get to wear a hard hat. Then one day when wedging a big white oak off a fence row and back into the woods so we wouldn’t have to fix fence or pick up brush out of the neighbors field (non paying work avoided by felling skill) a small and I mean like the size of your finger twig feel out of the top of that tree and hit him dead center in the head. The blood was flowing freely for a while. His hair was just long enough that I tied a knot in the hair to close the cut and then with a handkerchief laid on it, under a hard hat, that he was from that point forward willing to keep up with and wear, when we went back to work.

Several of the Appalachian BWM still use grabs or the hooks that you drive into the log and skip out at the landing. These were manufactured by Dixie the same folks that still make cant hooks. They are not available anymore, so these kinds search every yard sale and flea market for them and covet them closely. Grabs were made in two sizes a O and #1, they were arranged on chains that were different lengths, longer for header grabs and shorter for trail grabs. There have been some attempts to make this with a plasma cutter out of steel and they are just not the same as the drop forged ones. They don’t stand up to the driving in and skipping out. A skip hammer is also a hard tool to find, they are no long manufactured to my knowledge. Most guys just take a cutting torch to a small maul and make the point sharper or more conical than the original shape and use them on shorter handle that is hung on the horses hames with a rope tied through a hole in the end of the handle. My old arms and elbows are just not up to hammering much these days, but the younger guys like them because the are faster than excavating under a log to get the choker around it and really are faster in some cases. We don’t have anyone here using tongs for skidding, they simply put the load to far away from the team to handle big wood and we don’t work in the snow as much as the woodsmen in the north.

We name all our geldings after tools. Our newest working horse is named Chain.

[Scott G]

Hey Jason. Dixie (or a knock off?) still make grabs. You can buy them at NorthernTool.com

[TaylorJohnson]

I had seen those grabs in northern tool and wondered if they were any good. Taylor Johnson

[Iron Rose]

I always carry one ten foot ten and two twelve foot chains. Usually 1/4 in special alloy (expensive but light and stronger than 3/8 regular chain) two twelve foot chains have a grab hook in one end and a slip hook in the other and other is a ten foot chain has a slip hook in one end and a fid on the other. The longer chains are carried on the hames and the shorter on is hooked to the evener. This combination allows me to marry up chains to reach further. I also have a couple of cable chokers that I use when setting up a block purchase.

[Gabe Ayers]

The closest Northern Hydraulic is about 39 miles from us and the last time I went in the place it was like a china store. I am not sure if anyone else has this experience, but most of the stuff is junk, or lower quality than what most us old timers are used to. One of our guys recently bought a NH sheave, snatch block or pulley whatever you call them locally and straightened the hook out on the first load….sad that quality tools are harder to find these days.

I’ll tell the younger fellows about it and they can make their choice. I have more than I will ever use and hang on to them for some silly reason.

Once on a job a few years ago we were working a main skill trail that was obviously a previous trail – as we always look for old patterns of disturbance when we lay out an area for harvesting. It just makes sense that if it has been done before, why not use the same route. If it is not eroded and seems to fit the contour and topography it is good enough to use it again. The previous harvesters that were animal powered were very attuned to the land and how to work in all conditions and most of the time did a great job and we copy them often.

As always we rest our horses on the way to the landing with a good load and that is some of the best meditation time ever. Just watching their breathing or respiratory rate, looking for them to take that big sigh and be ready to go again. This when we scope out the trees checking for NTMP’s and look at the understory, the soil and rocks and environment. A common check is to look down between your legs through the expanded metal on the arch deck to the front of the log to be sure we are getting good suspension and are not pushing a bunch of duff or leaves, dirt or stuff in front of the log. Just to make sure the impact is minimum. While doing this routine check on this particular skid trail I noticed a unusually smooth curved looking root exposed from the previous skids and got down to look closer and discovered a set of grabs buried in the ground right in front of the blackened remains of an old stump. I dug them out and they were trail grabs that I am sure some previous logger looked for and didn’t find. I still have them hanging in the barn. They appeared to be store bought because they had a manufacture swivel between them and we all clean links of chain of big diameter. They hadn’t been beat on to much and still seem quite serviceable.

Some of the boys have wanted them but I just hold on to them in case we do have some steep ground work and a log train situation in the future.

It was kind of humbling to find those tools in a skid trail that someone else had worked, probably before I was even alive. Not comparable to finding an arrowhead of native American artifact but a reminder of those who had been there before us. Then we started making up stories about how they were lost. Maybe the last skid of the day on a Friday and they just didn’t go back and look and then a rain event came and covered them with silt. Lots of speculation from all the crew about how they got there, lots to think about in the work of the logging with animals.

Some of the modern guys will use a metal detector to look for lost grabs and chains these days, especially you guys working in snow cover. I don’t have one but have considered it occasionally when something metal and important disappears.

Thanks for the tip on NH having those grabs, we’ll pass it along. Ronnie Tucker had told me they could still be bought too, and gave me a link to buy them over the net, but most of the BWM don’t have a computer. We’ll see some of them over the holiday so I’ll pass that info along. I wonder if they make a skip hammer too?

[TaylorJohnson]

Jason you should write the guy that builds the forestry carts , I am not sure but he might sell them to . I had his catalog and still do some were,, I will look and get back to you . Taylor Johnson

[Does’ Leap]

@Biological Woodsman 13394 wrote:

Several of the Appalachian BWM still use grabs or the hooks that you drive into the log and skip out at the landing.
We name all our geldings after tools. Our newest working horse is named Chain.

I looked at the grab at N Tool. What is the circle on the end of the chain for? This grab only has 3′ of chain – a little tight for attaching it to the cart. Do you attach another chain with a grab hook which you then hook to your cart? It seems like the advantage to the grab is not having to snake your chain around logs (something I struggled with most of yesterday). True? What are the disadvantages? Do they come undone? Damage the log? Onerous to hammer off at the landing?

Enough questions?

Thanks.

George

[Plowboy]

1/4 in grade 70 with choker hook is very handy to work with.

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