Logging gear

[near horse]

I would be interested to hear what folks are using equipment-wise in their logging operation(s). What type, size of saw, bar length, chain style? Pros and cons.

To start off -I’m running a Jonsered 625 (think Husky now) w/ a 20″ bar but looking at going to a 24″ – from what I hear, it makes limbing a little less strenuous.

[Carl Russell]

Geoff, I use the next size up, 2071 Jonsereds, or 371 Husky, that’s a 70ish cc saw as opposed to the lower 60’s cc of your saw, and I like an 18″ bar, nothing longer. I prefer higher chain speed, and high motor power by dragging less chain. I have also known people who wanted longer bars so they didn’t have to bend over so far, but the longer bars add more difficulty in handling as well.

As far as making limbing easier, I say keep the chain sharp, and learn the bench technique of de-limbing, resting the saw on the bole of the tree and bending your knees, cutting limbs off of one side at a time, in a pattern that makes the tree have four sides.

The saw cuts better and you have more leverage if you use the flat part of the bar instead of the tip. Also what is tiring is holding and swinging the saw around, so if you get used to resting the saw and moving it along the tree as you work your way then you will be working less.

18″ bars are all I use, and I can easily cut down trees up to 32″ in diameter. The fact is though if I cut out the center from my front cut, I can cut a tree over 40″ in diameter.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Geoff:

I use a Husky 365 (65 cc) with a 20″ bar. I use a chisel tooth chain with a single raker (no safety chain). I touch it up frequently and it works great for my use. I also carry a couple of wedges, a loggers measuring tape (if cutting saw logs), and a hatchet to drive wedges (a la Game of Logging). Don’t forget chapps and safety helmet.

George

[simon lenihan]

we will use a 70 to 80cc to fell a tree and then use a smaller saw for limbing usually around 46cc with a high rpm, this is a good system when alot of limbing is required. A bar longer than 18″ is in my opinion very dangerous for limbing especially when one gets tired at the end of the day.
simon lenihan

[lancek]

We use a sthil 660 mag to fall with and a 460 and 290 for limbing and bucking duty! Of course we get limbs here as big as some folks tree bowls so the biger saw and bars all 24″ and skip tooth chain are nesesary for production cutting.

[Scott G]

Husky 372s’ are my mid-range saws. My opinion, they are the best all-around saw ever made. Run hard all day, every day. Stihls for smaller saws and Husky for mid to large saws. Unlike other posts here, I switched to a longer bar (30″) about 10 years ago specifically for limbing/bucking and slashing, not due to timber size. It is an ergonomic thing. I am a fairly tall guy and the bar allows me to stand rather than hunch over all day. It has made a BIG difference in how this trashed back feels at the end of the day. I’ll trade the extra 1.5# weight for that anyday. As far as the safety, I’m of the mind that it is a lot easier to shoot yourself with a pistol rather than a shotgun:D
Other equipment, PPE (personal protective equipment) is mandatory. Being someone who cut their leg before the advent of chaps, I never go into the woods without kevlar. Also, it doesn’t take more than a couple of sticks from aloft to bounce off of your hardhat to realize that a brain bucket is a wonderful thing. At least if you get post driven by a good sized widow maker you’ll be easier to identify and the open casket is still an option.
Other personal faller gear; full wedge pouch, blood stopper bandage/first aid on the belt also (know of a guy who bled out before he could get back to the truck 100yds away), 50′ spencer tape, and hand axe for pounding wedges and bumping knots.
Run Oregon 3/8″, 0.50g, round ground chisel full comp. Will run skip to semi-skip if consistently in big wood and bump it up to .404 pitch.
Take care,
Scott

[near horse]

Great responses! The bar length/ergonomics of limbing was what brought this to mind. When I bought my saw almost 20 yrs back Jonsered just came out w/ the 630 or something that was a “turbo” – essentially ran the chain at a much higher speed than the 625. My concern at the time was increased speed equals faster wear so I opted for the 625. The saw was setup w/ a 24″ bar but I went for a 20 because I thought it would be more nimble in limbing.
Carl, I also do as you suggest using the log surface to support the saw and the shorter bar would be convenient. The longer bar comes in handy when you limb from on the log (common out here) walking down the log.

A lot depends on the species of tree you’re cutting as well. Our western larch is a nice straight tree w/ small branches (thus used for telephone poles) while Ponderosa pine can have lower branches as big as small trees and intertwined, twisted …..

especially when one gets tired at the end of the day

Simon, you’re right here. Fatigue is a dangerous thing in all aspects of logging (and farming for that matter) –

What gas/oil ratios do you all run? Again, back when I bought the saw I wanted to be “good” to it so I ran it a little rich (maybe 30:1) rather than 50:1 that is the norm here. Probably hurt overall performance.

In the field – how many spare sharpened chains? Anyone field sharpen? Time to change or sharpen when the “chips turn to sawdust”. Your thoughts?

No doubt on the safety gear!

Can one of you differentiate on chain types – full comp, skip tooth, semi skip, chisel, square (new one to me).

Geoff

[ngcmcn]

Carl,
I’m assuming you’re using a bore cut. When you are on a 32′ or bigger butt are you cutting through your hinge through a small window(through your face cut) pivoting your saw then finishing up the bore from the sides.?

Thanks

Neal

[Carl Russell]

ngcmcn;9545 wrote:

Carl,
I’m assuming you’re using a bore cut. When you are on a 32′ or bigger butt are you cutting through your hinge through a small window(through your face cut) pivoting your saw then finishing up the bore from the sides.?

Thanks

Neal

Yes. I don’t cut that many trees that big, so I carry the bar that gives me the best all around functionality. Boring from the face cut gives that advantage on the big ‘uns. I do have a few longer bars to use for take-down, big old maples or the like.

I don’t carry sharpened chains. I sharpen in the woods, That’s one reason why the shorter bar/chain is my preference. I haven’t used the skip chain yet, but I understand that it helps with power/chain speed.

I touch up the saw as soon as it feels like it’s losing its edge. Just because it has a motor, doesn’t mean that the cutting edge shouldn’t be sharp. I have found over the years that when the chain starts to dull I lose more production and energy then if I just stop and sharpen it.

Carl

[Gabe Ayers]

We use the Stihl and Husky saws in the 372 – 460 sizes. We still have a 440 and a 360 Stihl we run also. We operate all of them with 20 inch bars, so the same chain fits them all, chisel tooth full comp.

We have some taller guys that run the 24″ bars to lessen the stoop factor and back issues common to this work.

I agree with Carl about sharpening in the woods, but without my bifocals I am not as good at getting the chrome edge as clean as I used too….

We did have a fellow in our group walking a white pine log limbing recently that slipped off the wet log and put a stub into his groin which took some time to get over…. I suppose some ice caulks on the boot soles would have helped, but less rain would help too.

PPG is a must and no chainsaw is operated without it. I think the difference in the saw brands is tiny if any at all over the long term usage. The most important thing for us is to have a brand that the local saw shop will repair.

Be careful and take your time out there folks, it takes a life time to grow a tree so there is no need to hurry to harvest them…..

It is funny how things work out. On our next segment in the series on Rural Heritage RFD-TV coming out in July, we do a felling demonstration and for the experts watching they will noticed we plunge the heart out of the hinge through the open face and don’t even mention it. We figured it would just complicate the demonstration to beginners watching and was presented for demonstration purposes only along with the recommendation that anyone considering doing this work get some hands on professional training. We use that plunge to create a door hinge as opposed to a piano hinge, which lessens the chances that it will crack the hinge on brittle species.

[Anonymous]

I ran a Stihl 460, with a 20″ bar for felling, limbing and bucking in the woods. I had guys tell me I needed to get a bigger saw, but I’m a pretty little guy, and a 460 has plenty of power in my mind. I often had contracts calling for tops to be lopped to the ground, so I did alot of limbing, and the extra weight wouldn’t have been worth it for little ol me. Its all about the sharpness of chain, really. I used 24″ bars some, especially earlier on, but I found that most times I didn’t need it and I didn’t like the extra filing required.

I started with full chisel chain, but switched to semi-skip, square filed chain after seeing its performance in chainsaw safety training. Square filing done right cuts like butter, even in hardwoods when doing a plunge cut. Because it takes a little more skill to square file, I didn’t do any filing in the woods. I had several sharp chains ready to go if the chain got dull and I sharpened at home (or sometimes on the tailgate).

I left a smaller saw on the landing for final bucking of logs-either a Jonserud 2165 with a 20″ bar or a 2149 with a 18″ bar. The landing saw depended on the size and species, and I ran that with semichisel chain to hold up a little longer with the dirt accumulated on skidded logs.

I swear by wedges, and I had a wedge pouch with an emergency med kit on it. PPE always. I had a pair of caulked boots that were really nice in some conditions.

Jason had a really good point when he said, “The most important thing for us is to have a brand that the local saw shop will repair.” I drove almost an hour to get to that saw shop, but it was worth it to get expert saw repair and advice.

[Scott G]

Geoff, all…
All modern, pro saws are designed to run on 50:1. Do not skimp on this. I would use only Stihl or Husky pro mixes as they have additional additives that will allow your saw to run much smoother and contribute to longevity. They also have stabilizers to help prevent your saw gas from becoming stale if it sits around for an extended period of time. The same goes for bar oil, it is all about tackiness. Using the ‘cheap stuff’ which is usually recycled crankcase oil results in excessive slingoff of oil off the chain. The tack allows for a longer residence time on the chain. I have tried running the biodegradable bar oil as I’m very aware of the amount of petroleum we sling around the woods on a daily basis. Unfortunately this product didn’t work well for me as there was no tack and after a day of felling you were coated. It does work better during the winter, however. Which brings to mind there are two viscositys of bar oil; summer grade (30w) and winter grade (20w) which makes a huge difference in performance during the appropriate season.
Chain, which comes in a myriad of configurations and sizes, can really confound folks until they become familiar with it at which point it makes perfect sense and allows the user to customize the type to their application. I would encourage you to Google ‘chainsaw chain’ and see what references you can come up with. I know Oregon (Blount) has an extensive amount of reference material on this. That said, I’ll give you the down and dirty version here. Pitch refers to the size of the cutters/chain. It is the distance measured between every third rivet/2. The most common sizes starting from the smallest are .325 (1/4), .375 (3/8), and .404. .325 is common on small arborist saws and .404 is normally used in larger wood. Gauge refers to the thickness of the drive link, i.e. .050, .060, & .063. Full comp, skip, & semi-skip refer to the arrangement of the cutters. Full comp has a cutter matched to every drive link. Skip, as the name implies, skips a driver so you have half as many cutters. Semi-skip is a mutant that has a matched pair(L & R) of cutters on each side of the tie strap and then a skip set and back to full comp. The primary reason for skip is to allow time for the kerf to clear of chips in large diameter wood. Full comp tends to bog itself down. Semi-skip was put forth to try to get the best of both worlds but at best is a compromise. Some fallers out here (particularly wildland firefighters) like to use skip all the time due to less sharpening required. The truth is that it cuts noticeably slower in smaller wood. Myself I run full comp almost exclusively unless I’m in really big wood and then I might throw on a loop of skip. Cutters come in a myriad of profiles, but for production use chisel either round ground or square ground. Square cuts faster but if you are working in dusty/dirty conditions it dulls much faster and also takes a great deal of time to master hand filing. Round ground chisel works great for me here in the Rockies. I strictly hand sharpen, most often in the woods, with a small stumpvise that hangs out in my wedge pouch. It is worth the time to learn to sharpen as your performance will be much greater than a ground chain. After you run a saw long enough you can tell the little things right away that are affecting your cutting performance and will have zero tolerance for anything less than razor sharp. Pushing the saw not only leads to fatigue, which as mentioned in previous posts is a HUGE safety issue, it is also extremely hard on your saw. The three worst enemies of a saw are heat, vibration, and dirt. Running a dull chain covers two of those. I recently talked to a contractor who espoused his cutting expertise to me while he was holding a saw with a blue bar and chaps that looked like they were made out of wool they had so many cuts in them. Personal observation is worth a million words…….. That said, that is about what I’ve written but it is a pretty deep topic. Hope this helped and would love to hear to input from other veterans.
Take care,
Scott

[near horse]

Thanks Scott and everyone. You never really know how much you don’t know until you know:)

[Scott G]

You don’t know you don’t know until you ask. Each day that goes by I realize I don’t know s*** and realize I know a lot less than I did 20 years ago…..:)
Take care,
Scott

[Carl Russell]

And it’s even more amazing when I realize how little I knew twenty years ago, but it apparently was enough to get started with.:rolleyes:

Carl

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