Logging Sustained Steep Ground

[Does’ Leap]

I have some large hemlock and various hardwood to remove from steep land. I have logged some steep areas, but they tended to be 50′ runs with it evening out. This would be a 500+ foot down-hill skid. I am not great at estimating slope, but I would guess it is in the 25-30 degree range. My inclination, where possible, is to drop the trees downhill and try to pull along the contour gradually losing elevation. My concern is the log/s rolling down hill.

I realize that much of this is site-specific, but I am looking for any tips/techniques to logging steep land along with any pitfalls.

Thanks.

George

[Carl Russell]

George, I like to make trails that run along contours as well. To do this I use “Slue” logs. Cut small poles, 6-12″ Dia. in long lengths spanning from rock or tree stump along the downhill side of your trail. As you skid the logs they will roll down and ride against the logs. After a few trips there will be loose soil pushed up against them and eventually you will have a very workable side-hill trail.

This is a section of my woodlot where I have been skidding logs along the contour, slightly uphill, for years. (A side note: After 25 years of working like this I just bought a little JD 1010 (1964) and I am steadily working around my land doing away with landscape like this…). With this method it makes sense to try to locate the trail in a place where it can be used for several trees, and repeatedly over time.

It works best to overlap the ends with the uphill one overlapping the end of the next one downhill so that your logs don’t catch on the ends. I usually can find trees and such to hold the ends, but occasionally I will sharpen a 4″ hardwood stake and drive it into the ground to support the rails. I also toss brush on these bumper rails.

Carl

[Does’ Leap]

Carl:

Brilliant, I will give it a try. Out of curiosity, was this something you figured out or was it acquired?

George

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 29840 wrote:

…. was this something you figured out or was it acquired?

This is a very old trick that I was informed about through conversations with men who logged with horses before tractors were common.

George, I also wanted to suggest that on some slopes, when felled correctly, some logs can be handled with a peavey and made to roll down to a location where they can be skidded safely. It can lead to another set of learning curves, but working with gravity can bring some functionality (and safety) to the equation.

I cut some hemlock years ago that was growing on a plateau on top of some ledges. I could get the horse up there, but there was no good way to skid the logs down. I would cut and twitch to the edge of the drop-off, unhitch and kick the logs over. They would roll about 100 feet down the slope, certainly not landing in an orderly manner, but they were much more approachable on more moderate slope.

More than one way to skin a cat…..

Carl

[Traveling Woodsman]

The method we use here in the Appalachians is a little different. The short version is that we go straight down and try to create more draft so that the horse (always use a single) has to pull, which gives you control over the load. The way we do that is to drop the trees either up or down the slope and create log trains using trail grabs. The goal is to create drag which we do by cutting the trees into log length and then fastening them together with trail grabs (some people call them dogs) and using header grabs to hook to the horse to the leading log. You put as many logs in the train as you need to create enough drag, using more than one tree if necessary. Depending on the slope you may have anywhere from 3 or 4 to 10 or 12 logs behind you. One horse pulls a lot of wood this way. One fellow in particular down here does a lot of this and has the kinks worked out of it. I’ve done enough to know (maybe 15mbf) that it’s not a good idea to try without hands on instruction. This is also the historical method, the way they did it back in the day. J-grabs were another addition that allowed you to quickly unhook from the load if you did lose control of the logs, but we don’t really use them.

You can’t do it when it’s muddy or frozen and one of the keys is having your skid trail clear of sticks and other trash that could cause the logs to lose their friction.

There’s lots more you could say about this, gotta get the morning started.

[Does’ Leap]

Here’s my debut as cinematographer. I attached my digital camera to my baseball cap to try to give the teamster’s perspective on the ground. The result is bouncy and the viewpoint is a little off as I can’t see where the camera is pointing. My daughter says I sound like an obese Darth Vader. Lots of family laughs at my expense

This ash was pulled off some steep, ledge ground. I twitched the logs to a drop-of and, thanks to gravity rolled them down with just a pulp hook (thank you Carl for the tip). I then re-hitched and pulled to the landing. There is a section in the video that is also fairly steep, but the camera’s perspective doesn’t show it.

George

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=H8VI98UCdIo

[Carl Russell]

Nice job George……. boy I found myself falling off the chair trying to see. Basically it showed all the high points. Well done, Carl

[Ronnie Tucker]

i know about grabs and use them part of the time but i dont know what a j dog looks like.i wish i could see a picture or a drawing of one.i know how they are suppose to work. ronnie tucker

[Does’ Leap]

So what do folks do about ground skidding down steep, snowy slopes? These hovering-around-freezing temperatures create a luge run for my logs and I need to be careful about taking out my horses. My technique now is to “step” my horses down the slope to slow down the momentum on the log. I also lengthen my chain and think of escape routes on particularly bad areas so I can get my horses out of the way before they get slammed. Any ideas?

George

[Tim Harrigan]

George, I would be hard pressed to find a place in Michigan where I had a problem like that so I am not speaking from experience, but I would put a bridle chain or two on the log to create some drag.

[Does’ Leap]

Hey Tim, I thought about a bridle chain for the log but can’t get my mind around the logistics and transport of that gear when I am ground skidding. Have you seen this done? I will often leave a couple of branches on the logs which help, but it is the butt logs that are problematic – often no branches for 30 feet or so.

George

[Tim Harrigan]

No, haven’t seen it done. I suppose I would just drag the chains back. Probably be nice to have 2 Peaveys, one at the landing and one at the stump. What if you just leave the flare on the butt log? That might be enough in some cases. Remember you are talking to a flat-lander here. 😉

[Rick Alger]

Criss cross the hills back and forth somewhat like an old time skier, but using longer diagonals. Clear relatively flat spots at appropriate spots to make your turns. (switchbacks) Leave bumper trees and bumper logs at the bad spots as Carl mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Hi George,
I’m assuming this is not an option for you, but just yesterday I was singing the praises of the log arch. We are logging only steep ground and all our skid trails are pretty well glazed over. I would be terrified to ground skid on those trails, but on the arch we are up out of harms way. The logs will slide and bump the back of the cart, but that doesn’t seem to cause any problems.
cheers, David

[Does’ Leap]

Hi David:

Thanks for the tip. I pull a lot of logs with my arch and it does help. These areas that I have been struggling with are not accessible with an arch – lots of ledge and hummocks. Summers are busy with farm work here, but I will try to squeeze in some time to hit those steep areas when the ground is bare.

George

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