Logs Delivered Markets Disappearing

[Gabe Ayers]

Posting this under sustainable forestry may be dubious…. for several reasons, but mostly because of the title.

In most parts of the mid Atlantic region the markets for “logs delivered”, which is how most of us that do this for a living generate income ~ is disappearing.

In other words the conventional forest products industry – starting with primary processing facilities, i.e. sawmills – are closing their gates weekly…..

If livestock markets stopped buying cattle, at any price, it would be front page news. But this is a much larger industry than agriculture as far as number of people employed and income paid, but no body is making a peep about it in our region.

Our group of Biological Woodsmen has seen this coming for some time. First through the decline in raw log prices over the last two years and then the extended shut down periods, the reduced specifications that defined certain
end use log values and now to simply not being able to sell logs at all…..

This puts a large segment of our society in the forest dependent regions on rock bottom or maybe even under a rock. This is when being “green” may actually keep people working their animals in the woods.

This is a very complex issue. We have been working to establish a list of services our practitioners provide for private landowners that will keep us working our animals in the forests for some time to come. We will be glad to share those approaches with anyone interested. It is all a matter of public information from our NGO as the services of a public charity that exist for the public good. We welcome input on these complex issues.

However the majority of our income has been generated by selling logs into the commodity defined markets for the past twenty years or so. So the loss
of that market is changing the situation more than any other single factor, to date.

Is anyone else in any other areas experiencing similar situations?

I hope this thread will lead to further discussion about what we are doing to keep working our animals to make a living. I particularly hope we have something to talk about period….times are getting tough folks….this is the most proof of that yet to be experienced by our group of modern horse loggers, the Biological Woodmen of HHFF.

I particularly want to hear what is happening with the other horse, mule and oxen loggers on this site.

We are worried in the woods, but happy to be still working.

[Rick Alger]

Feb. 21 was my last day on my winter job. Snow pack is over three feet. That cuts production in half and annoys the horses.

As far as markets go in northern NH, nobody is taking hardwood pulp. Hardwood pallet logs and low-grade saw logs are hard to move and bring way less than $200/mbf delivered. Softwood pulp is moving on tickets for the large contractors, but mills aren’t taking occasional loads from small operators. One collection yard I sell to is offering $17.05 a ton for delivered softwood pulp. The price of softwood sawlogs dropped $65/mbf last month. Pine is not moving. A lot of mills around here have closed also,

I am keeping busy with firewood . The forester on my winter job gave me a good bunch of standing low-grade hardwood for the taking. I’ll be fitting and moving what is already yarded, and going back for more when the snow melts. I’ve also got a 5 acre TSI project to do on snowshoes. These are both minimum wage deals.

I agree that the woods industry is on the ropes. A multi-million dollar logging outfit here in town is peddling firewood right along with the little guys.

It’s always been a boom or bust kind of business, but this time it seems worse.

[Ronnie Tucker]

the rope is getting tighter around our necks here in tn as well i am afraid that my work might come to a halt all i know is farming and logging even if other employment were available at 57 you dont get good jobs ronnie tucker tn logger

[J-L]

So just where do you get your info on the livestock industry? In my neck of the woods it’s much larger than the sawmills.
I haven’t heard a peep about the low cattle prices we’ve been enduring off and on for the last few decades. I have heard a great deal about the row crop farmers however.
I’m sorry to hear that it’s getting tough on you guys. In the livestock industry we’ve seen so many highs and lows that you can’t keep track of them. Just consider that cattle prices haven’t risen, on average, in quite a while.
While my Dad was running this place the price on our calves was nearly what it is today and sometimes higher. At that time fuel was $.75 per gallon to $1.00 per gallon. Fertilizer was under $150 per ton. The cost of equipment was less than half what it is now, etc.
You should keep in mind that the standard of living in my section of the livestock industry has been declining for a long time. Pick on lawyers or realtors or somebody else.

[Theloggerswife]

My husband has been worried sick over the closing of mill and markets in Vermont. He is a one man operation and very passionate about his work. He is lucky he has a job and a job that he likes….but the markets are terrible. He has work ahead of him for about a year, but with the markets the way they are he is telling the landowners that they should hold off unless the property is in the Land Use Program and needs to be cut.

The extreme fuel prices of last year have people in our area thinking about alternative heating…wood. I don’t think people are going to “trust” the fuel industry for years after the prices that we have seen in the recent past. This action will keep my husband in the woods producing firewood if nothing else.

I am sure we will weather the storm. We are lucky enough that our over-head is low enough with the logging equipment and with my income we will get by….hopefully this too shall pass!

[Robert MoonShadow]

First of all, I want to say that I have absolutely no experience in horselogging. However, you can’t live in this section of Idaho w/out rubbing elbows with loggers. You’re probably aware of the ‘let it die; let it burn’ policies out West, here – I’m not going to get into it – but there’s a major & growing market for firewood. I sell 70 – 80 cords a year. I do want to learn how to fit my donkeys into this, and fully intend on asking advice here, as I get closer to that end of it. I wanted to mainly just let you know what I see as going on, here in Idaho… the other thing for horseloggers is the state/federal policy around here for having horseloggers log out the strips of land between the highway lanes –> especially the Interstates, that are often divided directionally, leaving 50′ – 300′ or so wide strips of land that just don’t have the room for the skidders, etc. = I’m thinking that it’s mainly about finding those little niches where the “big boys” can’t fit… because the mills (the ones that are left) are screaming for logs. Out West, it’s not so much not having the prices – but of having the timber sales actually go through w/out lawsuits, etc. from stopping them – although my friends here say it’s getting a little better. I hope this helps with info from out west.

[Carl Russell]

One of the main reasons that i got into horse-logging was because I could see the limitations on big operations. Although log prices are low, I only produce 1-2 loads a week when I’m working full time, and when cutting good quality logs, I generally don’t have a hard time selling them.

That being said, mills are closing here, and prices are dropping, and I know several big operators that are holding onto heir a..es.

I don’t have a lot of faith in the near future, so I am planning to sell split wood from the stack on the farm, and work on custom sawmilling projects. Unfortunately I do have several landowners who want work done, but they know I will not work at a loss, so their stumpage rates are going to be pretty low, so we’re on hold there.

All in all though, I don’t have big bills, my production is low, and I know how to cut the best logs for sale, so with that in mind I’m pretty confident that I can keep poking a few loads in here and there.

Carl

[near horse]

Sorry but Robert, I don’t see the same thing up here in Deary Idaho. Most of the families in town are in logging and they’ve been off for the last couple of months because the mill (Potlatch in this case) wasn’t taking logs. Now we’re getting into mud season so guys will be off for the next weeks. On top of that, Potlatch is cutting back on its production plans and is restructuring the company – they are now charging for access to their property for any recreation – hiking, fishing, hunting, riding motorcycles/snowmobiles …. That is a first.

Most of these operations (much like my rant on big dairies -get big or get out) have bought into high expense logging. Ten years ago a feller-buncher was something you saw on TV. Now they all run them. And they tear through ground like Sherman through Atlanta. You know it’s bad when guys that work for some of these operations are apologetic for their practices. But they need to work.

The most (in my opinion) well-known horselogger in our region Gregg Caudell quit logging because log prices are so low it’s hardly worth the effort.

Also, I, like most people, hate paying a lot of money for lumber for a building project but right now 16′ 2×12’s (about $17) are cheaper than they were when I bought some for our house project in 1993. How can that be?

Bottom line – logs aren’t paying out in my neck of the woods either and mills aren’t taking them.

[Gabe Ayers]

J-L

Sir, I am not picking on cattlemen at all. I was/am just trying to compare two basic rural industries that are comparable in the number of people employed. My point is if the cattle markets closed there would be an uproar of protest. I have cattle too. A protest would be justified, I know how marginal all of it is folks, I have been here for over thirty years farming, logging and being a practicing forester.

The point is that these two are common publicly operated markets for commodities produced in this part of rural America and that in this area the forest products industry – from stump to finished goods has historically been the largest employer in the region.

And yes you are right my statement of facts about employment were for the mostly forested regions of the eastern U.S. not Wyoming or the west or mid west in general. I was speaking of the eastern oak hickory forest type region. Please excuse and forgive that unclear wording on this international forum. I will add that homegrown beef and wild venison are the meat we eat regularly.

My main purpose was to have folks discuss what they are doing other than depending on the commodity defined markets to make a living working their animals.

In that light and to that end, I would invite anyone interested to visit a blog about a project we have been working on for a few months that have kept us out of the commodity defined markets. We are looking forward to several other projects similar to this as a “green marketing” approach to low impact development. We hope this trend will continue.

http://www.crookedriver.wordpress.com

If you have comments or questions about the project I would appreciate you addressing to me through this forum or my email address below. Thanks for consideration on that issue.

One positive environmental aspect of this current market condition is that most conventional forest products procurement and raw log producers are hurting bad, to the point of not working. This means less clear cutting and less high grading and the reduction of inventory in the over stocked saw mills.

I think we can ride it out too. We also are recommending many landowners practice timber stand improvement and not think of making “big money” from any timber sale at this moment…or “big money” at any other moment for that matter.

Since we now have over 5 million people drawing unemployment benefits, things are bad even for those willing and able to work. Farmers and loggers don’t have that safety net. So some things may change in the natural resource management decisions in the future.

PS – We are still able to sell softwood pulp for about 19.00 a ton delivered about thirty miles away one way….hardly worth doing….

[Plowboy]

Our biggest local mill also does retail for hard and softwood finish lumber and flooring. The mill is down to 3 days a week. Three others have closed within 30 mile radius. Many loggers selling firewood and watching daytime TV around here. Landowners are holding onto their timber unless they are broke. A good friend that we help train horses cut some high grade veneer cherry last year for his neighbor and they got big money for a few trees now the price is half of last year! There is more but it will stand there for now I guess they grew up through the Hemlock real tall and straight and clear. The landowner told him if he wanted to build anything take all the hemlock he needed for free and all the firewood trees. The whole economy is that way but the small guys are really having a tough time. No bail out for the little guys.

[Ronnie Tucker]

the tie buyers have put the mills on a qutoa the mills have enough to run awhile my man said maybe he could resume buying in a month or so this is going to be tough grade logs will not last long ronnie tucker tn logger

[Robert MoonShadow]

Yeah, it’s weird how things are different, sometimes not far from each other… The mill over the pass is still buying a lot (and it was just sold); Potlatch’s pulp mill in Lewiston (halfway between Geoff & I ) seems to be holding about steady, yet a lot of others not that far away are sinking…
The guy around here who’d really doing well is Eli Peneda… the Hispanic guy who owns the fencepost mill –> he hires about a dozen migrants each year, and buys only lodgepole; but steadily churns out fenceposts, split-rail & log-rail fencing. He never gets any bigger… or any smaller, and according to the locals it’s been that way for going on 20 years, now. Maybe somewhere in there is the key, if anyone here can figure it out & use it?

[Rick Alger]

Jason,

Congratulations, that project at Crooked River Farm looks like an ideal application of modern horsepowered forestry.

I would love to find that kind of work, and I’m open to suggestions on how to make it happen up here in Yankee land.

Rick

[Gabe Ayers]

Rick,

Thank you sir. We have truly enjoyed working in this setting. It is truly a rare occasion to have such a work place, but it didn’t happen accidentally.

We have worked for a long time to define this approach as the most sensitive method to address human needs for forest products and those needs combined with a landowner that has an intensely fierce value for the aesthetic natural beauty of the forest justify the application of our techniques and methods. There are a particular combination of “values” that brought us to this spot.

The first is being a promoter of alternative forest management expressed through our Restorative Forestry Services consulting business. People inquire and then hire us to walk and consult on what they have and how we would recommend they accomplish their objectives within principles of restoration.
During this process we tell them what we see as the history of the forest as it relates to the current condition, we identify tree and understory species present, average age range, estimated volume of stocking and then identify individuals that fit into our worst first single tree selection silviculture.

Once that vision or viewpoint is shared and embraced, we move to the next step, which is the economics of actually doing the work. Those numbers are varied as the end use is defined by the landowner. In this case it was to used it to build their own home. This is the type of end use that supports our approach best. It is obviously slower and more expensive than buying in from normal (not sustainable) channels, or even other international “green certified” sources (FSC). The primary point is that the landowner has a high value on using their own material yet protecting, preserving and enhancing their own natural resource base.

I won’t go into the numbers in this post, but the point is that some folks are willing to pay more and accept that in this case you get what you pay for, i.e. superior natural resource management services.

Now, the other way we have connected with such landowners is through the builders of extremely high end structures such as timber frames. These folks are just like the rest of the economy and seeing slowing in their business. So they are embracing a gentler sourcing approach to take advantage of the market demand for “green” anything. So I would suggest that you or any small time horse, mule or oxen logger contact any Timber Frame or green building companies and tell them of your services. They may reject it initially as being to expensive, but if they are open minded enough they may see this as another way to sell their goods and services. Hopefully we will soon have some web sites to link to for an example that could be translated to any forested area. There are currently some web site links, but the information is being better refined to help the client understand and know what it is about.

A second commonality of these clients is that the land is under conservation easements, that restrict future use of the land in order to reduce the local tax burden on the property to be limited to it’s actual use as a forest. We have written and contributed to the development of many conservation easements by offering wording to support and justify extraction from the forest, “for the health of the forest”. There are many states that have working conservation easements. The primary restriction of a conservation easement is that it can never be clear cut and there can’t be but some many houses on it – which restricts development. This is often the location of the right kind of landowner that is willing and able to pay for the superior services you and many animal powered folks may provide.

It is a niche….which we are all used to anyway. It takes a while to find the clients though any method and may be a long term development by any practitioner of restorative and therefore sustainable forestry. Anyone is welcome to contact me through the email below if they want more information. There are certainly many more details than shared in this post.

Thanks for your interest Rick. This is exactly the kind of response I was after when starting this thread. Let me know what you think.

Meanwhile – we are planning much more food production this coming season to hopefully offset the loss of income from the logs delivered markets we have sold some of our material to historically.

[J-L]

Sorry Jason, there was supposed to be a smiley face after the ‘pick on lawyers’ remark.:)
Didn’t mean it to come across so harshly.

[Author]

Posts