Looking for Ayrshire breeder willing to cross some cows with Milking Devons

[Andy Carson]

I am looking for an Ayrshire breeder that would be interested in AI’ing some of thier cows with a Milking Devon. I want some bull calves (preferably 3) from this cross next spring. I figure as I’ve got time, so might as well be picky about what I want to train as my next ox team… I think that some dairymen might have extra cows that they won’t want heifers from and this might be a good use for them. Alternatively, a milking devon might be a good bull for heifers as the calves are supposed to be small. Anyway, if anyone is interested or knows of someone who might be interested in a deal like this, please PM me with a phone number and I’ll call so we can figure out a deal that is mutually beneficial. By the way, have any of the oxen people made a deal like this with a dairy? If so, please let me know what sort of deal you worked out or if there is any sort of standard arrangement. For example, perhaps I buy the semen and agree to purchase 3 bull calves at a few days old at X dollars. I know this is an unusual cross and perhaps an unusual arrangement, so I expect to drive some to get this… In the grand scheme, a long drive is probably going to be a drop in the bucket compared to the training and working time.

[dominiquer60]

Andy, If next spring is your goal, you may be cutting it close even if you find a herd soon. My suggestion is to start in the breed association directory and start networking with anyone local to you.

[Andy Carson]

Thanks Erika,
I did try the breed directory, and have some leads, but wanted to cast a wide net. A hang up some breeders have is “what if they are all heifers?” I had initially offered to buy just 3 bull calves for x + market price (x is negotiable), then offered to buy all the bull calves for x + market price, but either of these deals makes the dairyman assume a risk with reguard to the sex of the calves. It would sweeten the deal significantly if I propose that I would buy all the crossed offspring (at something like x/2 + market price), reguardless of sex. Of course, I would pay less for each calf this way, but I would be assuming the risk rather than the dairyman. Of course, this leaves me with Ayrshire/Milking Devon heifers that I don’t really want. I might find buyers for them, though, and perhaps recover the money or make a small loss. If it’s just a small loss on the heifers, than it might be a better deal for me to just take all the offspring as I would then get the bull calves for cheaper than I would have otherwise. I had suspected that oxen people would have some sort of standard deal worked out with dairys to produce those holstein/chinaninas or devon/chinaninas or other dairy crosses that you see in New England. I still haven’t heard what those deals are like (I suspect they are highly variable and perhaps there isn’t a “standard deal”). What I can say is (at least around here) no one seems to jump at the offer of free semen and a guaranted sale of bull calves for x dollars in return for AI’ing 8 cows at about the same time. The dairymen aren’t totally dismissive of the thought, though, and pass me around to others who they think might be interested. This makes me think I need to sweeten the deal a bit.

[dominiquer60]

I don’t know of a standard and a lot of the cool crosses are homemade, must be nice to have a herd to play with. It sounds like a good cross. If you sweeten the deal you could appeal to the homesteader crowd to market any heifers that come out of the deal. One of our members here was looking for a heifer for home use, she found one, but I imagine there are others looking too, especially if they are treated well (receiving colostrum, good milk and good care initially at the farm), and horns are appealing to some people too. You may find yourself with a great new but brief niche market. Best of Luck.

[near horse]

Ayrshires aren’t all that common out here in the first place, so that could be the first challenge but check out that Family Cow forum. Those folks peruse every ad in the country for cows/calves etc. They also might be a good place to sell any Ayrshire/MD heifer calves you get and need to move. As Erika says, those well-cared for dairy cross heifers could be worth more than you think.

Do you already have semen? Not sure how they do it or if you can contract it but the breeding services now offer sexed semen for the major dairy breeds – think it gets you a 75-80% likelihood of your selected sex.

What’s funny is dairys see the heifers as the valuable calves and the bulls as byproducts.

[Andy Carson]

Thanks for the tip, Geoff. It does seem that I am underestimating the value of these heifers. Granted, you can look at ads and not know if the animals sold at the listed price, but they are in a “neighborhood” that is encouraging. Looking at auction values (in contrast) is very discouraging…

I do have a good number of Ayrshire breeders in my area, I just have to find one that wants to play my reindeer games.

[dominiquer60]

http://www.localharvest.org/threshold-farm-M321

Thresh Hold Farm in NY has a herd of Ayrshire/ shorthorn crosses, heavy on the Ayrshire. I spoke with a friend who just bought a bred heifer, she said that they just started breeding to a MD bull. They have an nice well handled herd check them out!

[Andy Carson]

Yeah-Ha! Thanks Erika, you rock!!! I called Theshold farm and learned thier cows are actually more shorthorn than ayrshire, but they are supposed to still be very active. They liked the shorthorn in thier cows because they weren’t so “naughty” and didn’t “complain” so much. I am looking for a fast team (if that wasn’t obvious), and I really doubt 1/4 shorthorn is going to slow a team down much when the other 3/4 is Ayrshire and Milking Devon… This cross will work quite nicely. This site is freakin’ awesome!!! Who would have thought you could just ask for a cross of two of the rarest dairy breeds in the US, and a few days later find them? 😀

[dominiquer60]

I called my friend looking for holistic farm management info and to discuss farmers market politics, when we finished she quickly changed the subject to her new family cow. She dropped a bull calf 3 weeks ago and when I asked what her Ayr/short was crossed to she said the same, but that they were now crossing to milking devons. This was a total random call to someone that I rarely talk to on the phone, but I guess the universe works in mysterious ways!

In less than 24 hours I found a source for a highly unlikely cross, I thought you were crazy, but now I know I am the crazy one 🙂 Do you have dibs on Hugh’s next two bull calves?

Now how about you find me a matched pair of blue roan bull calves 🙂 That would be something.

[Andy Carson]

I haven’t talked to Hugh, but I did talk to Hanna. I am calling dibs on the next bull calves barring anything unexpected. I will keep my eyes open for blue roan calves. I think these are often milking shorthorn or MS/holstein crosses, right? I did a quick google and found a dairy in my general area crossing Milking Shorthorns with various other dairy breeds, they say they get alot of blue roan calves. They calve 70+ cows a year, so your odds seem pretty good. You might be able to find something closer, but if not, it might work out that I could bring a pair to NY when I got to get my calves. Alot depends on the timing, but it’s something to think about. It would save one of us a long drive.
http://www.clovercreekcheese.com/news/march10.htm

[dominiquer60]

I am not really ready for another pair yet, but if you aren’t keeping an eye out you’ll never find what you want. Just thought I would throw you an equal challenge. I sent them a note and encouraged them to email if they are blessed with a pair of blues, or to post any other nicely match pairs of calves to our site here. Expanding the network!

[Andy Carson]

So a pair of bull calf twins were born with this cross I wanted. I can think of advantages to twins, as I think their bodies and temperament would be as closely matched as possible. One twin is smaller than the other one, and i wonder if they grow out of thus or not. I think twins often end up a little smaller than singles. Is this true? If so, is the effect strong? Are twins more difficult to work single when needed?

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