more D ring questions

[Donn Hewes]

hi all, while making my third harness, I think I probably made the tugs too long. The harness is for a mule and not a horse. The front tug is about 22″. With the repair clips I used it will be pretty easy to take it apart and cut an inch or two out of them.

Here is my question. Is the tug being too long the ONLY reason for the bulging front tug? Or could it be related to front side strap too long, short, etc? rear strap too loose? I am still hitching three abreast and will wait to make a change until I hook up a pair. I am still struggling with the three abreast neck yoke, but the next time it is warm enough for some shop I think I will make a new one.

Each harness takes a little longer to convert than I would think. By the time I repair other parts and stuff like that it takes three to six hours (a few days some times) per horse.

[Mark Cowdrey]

Donn,
Is the front tug bulging only when the britchen is “engaged”, i.e. in the act of holding back the load?
The front side strap being too long would not do it but there is a balance between the 2 side straps and the 2 tugs so that the D-ring stays in the correct fore-aft position whether drawing a load or holding back.
As I think about this,
the front tug length controls where the D-ring sits fore & aft when drawing a load. The rear side strap (and the britchen) controls where it sits when holding back. The front side strap, as well as being part of the essential geometry of the D-ring harness (which places the weight of the pole on the horse’s back rather than on this neck), controls how far out in front of the horse the jockey yoke sits.
So if the tugs where the correct length (D-ring where it should be when drawing a load) the front tug would tend to show he same amount of slack when the team is holding back that the rear side strap and britchen show when the team is drawing a load. That slack wants to be enough but minimal to keep the D-ring from tending to shift back and forth.
As a rule of thumb, this is what Les Barden told me about front side strap length; when the horse is not hitched and the strap is hanging, if it is pivoted up towards the collar the end of the fitting should align more or less w the hame ring that the front-side-strap-lazy-strap hangs from. That’s about where I run mine.
As far as where fore and aft the D-ring should sit, my interpretation is that it is behind the front legs far enough so that the belly band, when snug as it should be, does not interfere with the action of the front legs. That is of course reducing to words something that you really need to see to get right. What do others use for eyeballing correct fore-aft D-ring placement?

I think I’ve got the above correct, but others should weigh in if they see an error or disagree.

[Donn Hewes]

D ring users. Do you adjust a side strap (rear?) every time you put the harness on? IE. Loosen it to take it off tighten it again when you put it on? Any one using a large snap on one of the rear side straps at the britchen? How long should the front side strap be? IE. how far from the chest is the twin yoke when hitched? I imagine you adjust these to make all the horses the same and leave them alone. True? I have been using a two horse neck yoke on a three horse hitch, after early attempts at a three horse neck yoke didn’t work too well. The two horse set works OK, But annoying if the third horse won’t stay up in place. Thanks for all the help. Just waiting for a brtchen repair to fininsh my fourth harness.

[Does’ Leap]

Donn:

I don’t adjust the rear side strap except to get it right (in regards to the britchen tension) and leave it. I do loosen the front side strap on 1 horse when I attach to the pole. I get the traces as tight as possible and then tighten the FSS. L Barden told me you should get the FSS tight enough so you can clip it to the where the lazy strap attaches to your harness (more or less).

George

[colttrainer]

Just a point to mention. Side backer or d ring harness what ever name you wish to use DOES NOT TAKE WEIGHT FROM THE COLLAR AND PLACE IT ON THE BACK PAD. I should know I use horses and build harness for a living.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Al, I think you might want to check into the D ring harness and how it works. Les Barden’s video is a good source of info. This harness is in fact different from a side backer, and does clearly remove ALL tongue weight to the back saddle. Check it out.

George, I am a little confused about how you tighten the FSS. Before you hook any tugs you have a choice of how long or short they should be. Then loosen one and tighten it after hooking all the tugs? Lazy strap is the strap that holds the FSS when not in use? You say tighten it until the FSS is almost to the attachment of the lazy strap. Do you mean raising the tongue? Does the FSS end up almost horizontal? Can some one recommend a good picture? Thanks for the help. Donn

[Mark Cowdrey]

Donn,
It can get to be a head scratcher.
Check out the two pix I posted in the thread “D-Ring position”. In these pix the FSS area bit long. Les’ recommendation is that if you pivot the FSS at the D-ring up towards the collar, the jockey yoke hook will align more or less with the ring on the hame where the FSS lazy strap attachs. (As George said.) Another measure I use is I want the Jockey Yokes to barely clear the collar if they (and the pole) come up. When they are in like that, the harness needs to be adjusted so that the JY’s ride high enough so that the horses knees don’t hit them. Notice that I have reworked the ends of my JYs to do away with the ring and attach directly to the end of the JY to help shorten the whole rig vertically (Jay Bailey’s guidance).
In the picture of the off horse you can plainly see that the FSS lazy strap is slack and there is no tongue weight on the collar (neck).
On the near horse, note the FSS wrapped and tucked on itself. This is the traditional point to loosen and tighten the harness to rig (putting the animals on the pole, connecting the JYs and trace chains) the team. When it is tight, as shown, everything is in working position with no pole weight on the collar. In this condition it is too tight, typically, in my experience, to make the final hook-up of the last trace chain because you are raising the pole as you make the connection. Even if you are rugged enough to do it, it is in my opinion a bone-headed waste of energy and an invitation to run your rig too loose. To avoid this, I run the near horse near side FSS out to the last hole and leave it loose until all connections (4 FSS hooks and 4 trace chains) have been made. Then I tighten it to a point I have already decided in order that it is the same length as the off side FSS. As I tighten it, the pole lifts and the weight comes off the FSSs lazy straps.
As a side note, in the picture of the near horse the fact that the back ad is carrying weight is clear from the position of the dispalced hair at its edges
If this is still like mud email me and I will send you my phone number.
Hope this helps,
Mark
PS
I think there is confusion about what a D-ring harness actually is. It is not a New England, side backer or Boston backer or Boston truck harness. In the second edition of the Workhorse Handbook, page 155, is an illustration of “New England or Sidebacker Harness”. Although it has a “D-ring”, it has no back pad and is defintely not a D-ring harness. On the next page, 156, an attempt is made to describe how a D-ring harness (calling it a “New England Harness”) functions and the attempt is badly blown. Les Barden’s video is the definitive explanation.

[Mark Cowdrey]

This forum is no place for name calling. I regret my use of the term “bone-headed” in my previous post. Please accept my apologies.
Mark

[Does’ Leap]

Donn:

Mark answered you follow-up questions to my post more eloquently than I could have. Good luck.

George

[colttrainer]

If some one can post pics of their D-ring harness it would be great. If there is something differnet about it then what I know as d-ring harness I would like to see it. If it turns out that there is a style out there that I am not familar with I would conside that it may do as you claim. But I have been building harness for 30 years And my father built harness for 60 odd years & his father built harness, so I will be very surprised if there is a style that I am not aware of. But I am open to any & all possibilities.

[Carl Russell]

Al there are many other threads on here with reference to d-ring harness, so you should be able to find much more discussion.

One of the reasons why many people have found that d-ring harnesses do not take weight off of collars is because they are built with front traces too long, which brings the d-ring down too low to transfer much weight to the jack saddle. The other reasons have to do with adjusting the britchen, side straps, and tension of the traces. When built with appropriate dimensions for the intended horse, and adjusted correctly the d-ring harness can support a 250-300 lb person sitting on the end of the pole with ALL the weight on the jack saddle.

Here is a pic of my horses with d-ring showing how the so-called “lazy straps” are slack because the tension between the evener and neckyoke is suspended directly on the jack saddle. If the front trace was longer the d-ring would drop down several inches so that even with appropriate tension the pole would be lower and the weight would then be hanging off of the “lazy straps”.

As far as the other comments about lengthening and shortening the front side straps when hitching, I never have to re-adjust them. Once they are set, about the same length as the front trace, I leave them. I take up slack by pushing with my thigh against the evener when I hook the last heel link. I have never had to use the strap, as I can push alot harder with my leg than I could pull on a buckle.

Carl

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