Mustang mules??

[Robert MoonShadow]

I’ve thought of this several times before & wonder if anyone else has any experiences or knowledge of mustang mules? I’m primarily thinking BLM mustang x BLM burro… smaller, for us w/ limited acreage; tough & smart, both parents have proven survival genetics & savvy; and it seems (to me, but what do I know?) that their hoofs would likely be too tough that if you ever DID decide to shoe them, you’d have to GLUE the shoes on = hoofs to tough to drive a nail into! 😮
The only major downside I can think of so far: both parents taken in from the wild (if as adults), probably wouldn’t mate; same as some jacks won’t mate horses, etc.
Any thoughts, opinions or knowledge?

[Ronnie Tucker]

just use regular mules they are tough enough you are thinking a little too much ronnie tucker tn

[Robert MoonShadow]

@Ronnie Tucker 4879 wrote:

just use regular mules they are tough enough you are thinking a little too much ronnie tucker tn

Hhmph. Didn’t know that was possible = thinking too much. It’s why I choose to become a sustainable farmer… I like to think, and with the USDA being just a mouthpiece spouting the proproganda of the agribusiness elite, I’m pretty much left with thinking & figuring out things for myself… and asking questions on forums dedicated to dissembling information about sustainable agriculture >>> such as DAP. As for mustang mules: I see an under-utilized resource that might have possibilities for usefulness in the small-scale produce farming I have just barely started to do {this will be my second year}. I don’t know if it’s feasible – that’s why I’m asking my “elders” = in this case, those who have more experience in draft animals. I’m 5’8″ tall; I work w/ the draft mule here, building trails, but I’m more comfortable with smaller animals. Hence, standard donkeys. I’m just interested in knowing the feasibility of mustang mules. Their initial cost is very appealing & the Nevada & Wyoming prison systems have programs where the inmates do the initial taming & training of the mustangs. I thought perhaps one of those crossed onto a BLM burro… (or the $100 spotted jack I’ve got coming up from Texas! 😀 )
…I believe it was Descartes who said “I think, therefor, I am“

[OldKat]

… since you have a spotted jack being shipped from Texas anyway. If you are 5’8″ and therefore looking to keep your animals on the smaller side; what about letting me load up about 15 or 16 feral donkeys (that are eating up all the grass, not to mention my hay on a place I lease) on your trailer and send them your way?

These guys are a cross between several BLM donkeys that the land owners adopted probably 15 to 20 years ago and some miniature donkeys that the neighbor brought onto his place. Some spotted, mostly the standard donkey look. Have trapped 31 of them so far and shipped them out; still have at least 15 or 16 to go. I just know that you would love them, although you better have some super tight fences to keep them on your place.

Because you are DAP poster (and even if you weren’t) I’ll let you have the whole bunch of them for EXACTLY $100.0 LESS than you are paying for your spotted jack! This one time only offer is open to anyone else as well, you pay for the Coggins test. Hurry and reply while they last!

[HeeHawHaven]

There was a blm burro/mustang cross down the street from us a couple of years ago. Never got very big….maybe 13 H? But, he was stocky. It’s an option, but there are many donkeys and mules out there for you to look at. Check out Craigslist for Boise, you’ll often find donkeys for a very reasonable price. Also, Idaho prisons work with the mustangs from the BLM at the facility on Pleasant Valley Rd. in Boise. I think they only have sales every 2-4 years though….. Plus, if you breed to make your own mule, you’ll have to wait 2-3 years for it to be old enough to start!

Dave

[Robert MoonShadow]

OldKat – If you know a pair of brothers by the name of Marek from up this way, they’re the same burros I know about down there. They told me about hauling some & was going to check to see if any were left… for when I get my own land (to put up that super-tight fence!). Actually, I’ve heard that in Nevada, many ranchers want the burros there: seems like they dig down to water during the drought & that helps the cattle, too.
Dave – Yeah, I know about the inmates down there… they only help w/ the sales, now, but while I was a prisoner there (got out in ’07), I wrote up a proposal to have the inmates actually work w/ the ‘stangs & burros… got the governor’s approval, too! Only need: volunteers to help teach the inmates, donations of equipment, and $$ –> although, they indicated that w/ the first two, they’d find the $$.

[Tom S]

I just came aboard and I seen your post. I have had 7 mules that were born at my place and all of them came out of mustang mares and a 15 HH (mamouth) Jack. I have also had several non mustang mules. I haven’t found any significant differance in the hooves on any of them. Truth is, they don’t seem to be any tougher nor any harder to work with than the non mustang mules. I say, find a good mare and a good jack and let the rest work itself out by nature.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Hey Tom; Nice to meet you. On those mustang mules you had: do you remember what the size & build of their mothers were? Stocky/lean? Height? And what size did the mules end up being, with a Mammoth Jack for a sire? Thanks for sharing your input & welcome aboard!

[Tom S]

I had three differant mares. Two of them were straight from the BLM which I tamed and used as saddle mares. The third is 1/2 mustang, it was the baby of one of the other two. Both mares are about medium bodied and boned, w/ pretty heads. Not as broad as QHs, but very nice bodies. They were uncharacteriistic of the “jug head” mustangs. One mare was 13.3hh (bay) and the other 13.2hh (Guella). The 1/2 mustang mare came out of the bay and a 15hh registered paint. She is 14.3 hh.

The bay mare had several foals. She always threw 14.3-15hh babies. The last three were mules. I still have two of them. One is 1yr 3 mos and the other is 2 yrs 6 mos. The one sold (3 1/2 yrs old) and the 2 yr old will make about 14.3-15 hh min. The two older ones are a little bigger boned but not as much as dad. Perfect size for trail riding and packing as saddle mules. I have started and am riding the 2 yr old.

The guella had two. A set of twins. One Molley and one John. I sold both to differant people. They are about 3 1/2. yrs old The molly is about 14.2hh and the John is about 15hh. Average to large bones. Good Saddle mule size. I sold the John after I started him is saddle. The people who bought him thinks he will be well over 15.hh before he stops growing.

The 1/2 mustang has had 3 Johns. They are not boned as big, but instead a little more refined. One is 3, another 2 and the youngest is 9 months. The 3 yr old is being ridden as a saddle mule and is about 14.3. The 2 yr old, I don’t know, I measured him as a weanling and he measured to be about 14.3. I sold him and have lost track of him. The 9 mos old will make about 14.3.

I don’t recommend trying to breed your own unless you have a lot of time. There are a lot of good mules out there and they are going cheaper than you can raise one. I sold my jack and my mares and got out of the breeding for that very reason.

The jack came from Garret Farms in OK. He was very big boned, giant head, long legs, and a real “gentle giant” even when he was breeding. Very low maintenance. The mares really didn’t like him, but they let him breed them both in the pasture or standing. He stayed away from them when they were not in. He was lowest on pecking order. I ran my horses, mules, and Jack together in the same corrals. If I were going to breed again, I would spend the money and go back and get another mamouth.

Hope this helps.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Tom; it did help, thanks. One thing – do you think any of them would’ve made decent work (farm) mules? Pulling carts/wagons, cultivators, mowers, etc.? Especially as part of a team. Sounds like, from your description, that they pretty much had body-types about halfway between their parents, which is what I’d expect. Again, thank you for your input.

[J-L]

Robert, I broke two mules out of BLM mares. Of these one turned out pretty good although they were wild as march hares when I got them. The other was not trustworthy and went down the road.
Both of these were fairly small, like around 800 lb. I think if the other had turned out decent they’d have made a very useful team. The little mare mule I had was tough and smart. Once she decided she could trust me she was game for anything.
These were out of a standard jack ass and were only about 13 hands.
Tom S is right on the button. You gotta have good mares. I think its more important with mules than it is with horses. If you can get a good proven mare that you know the temperament you are better off. If not, then its a crap shoot.

[Tom S]

Robert,

I believe I have been lucky with the mares that I have bought from BLM. Like any horse, there are going to be some good ones and bad ones. Mine calmed down real well, but I had to spend a lot of time with them. I didn’t expose them to gaming events. I used them for road, street, and trail riding. I wanted them to be settled. If someone wanted to “hot rod” them, they got off them. Trot and occasionally lope, yes. The mares I had were very passive once I got them past the scarey introduction. The babies from them are also like mom and dad. I do not like/want a hyper horse nor a hyper mule. If I am unlucky enough to have one, they will be like the one J-L had, it will hit the road. There are too many good ones out there to put up with a bad one.

Over the years, I have bought 7 mustangs, a couple were geldings. I have alsohelped other people get their mustangs started. I believe I have somewhat of a solid understanding of how to tame and break a mustang. The 1 yr old and up that have roamed the range are going to be a little tougher to settle down. I have bought a couple 6 yr olds and rode them in city parades, but it takes a lot of time to get them to that point and it is hard to get the wild instinct for survival out of them. A young one raised in captivity is your best choice. We still have a top notch gelding (black 15.3hh) that was born on the range, that is absolutely great, but not all are not going to turn out that way. Most people only hear about the good ones. All of them, on the first days of training will absolutely hurt you if you are not prepared to handle them. A good quality domestic mare will be a lot easier to deal with if you don’t have a lot of time and they have not been exposed to the preditor survival attitude.

In my opinion, before getting started with your breeding program, if you are going to use mustangs, get the mares “dead broke” to handle and catch (not necessarily to ride). Get them to accept you and want to come to you. If not, you will have a terrible time with the foals trying to teach them be your partner. The mare will instead teach it survival, which means running from you every time you come to the corral. I didn’t start the mule program until my mares were with me for some time. Even then, the bay mare would still not come to me, and it showed up in the beginning atitude of the mule foal. It caused me to have to spend extra time with the foal to convince it that I was not the enemy.

Sorry about the long prelim, but I don’t have you a good answer. Would my mules make good mules to pull? I am hoping they are good prospects, but I came up in the riding world. By no means, do I know anything about pulling or driving, so I can’t give you a good answer. My only experience with pulling is that I have trained an old mare and an old gelding at differant times to pull a one horse buggy around the neigherhood without any problems, but that is “childs play” compared to what most of these guys are doing with their animals. The old horses didn’t have any issues and they were already bombproof. I just can’t give you a honest answer with my lack of knowledge on pulling. I can tell you that I am riding and packing the two year old mule and exposing her to everything I can. To me, I need to be comfortable with her, before I expose her to the carriage, wagon, etc. She is very passive now, and doesn’t get excited, except once in a while she will still see a “booger” or two. I want to give her a little time yet before I start the pulling. I like to expose my animals to parades, cars, running childern, and etc. We still have a ways to go with her.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Thank you both for your commentary & insights. I believe that you are both right on – that the mother’s attitude will have a direct & major influence on their young’s outlook towards you. I’ve noticed the same thing w/ 3 of my goats: these 3 came from a herd of about 700, used for noxious weed control on the oen range. Human contact very limited – ’til I got them! I spent alot of time purposely working in & around the small pasture I winter my goats in. They settled down somewhat – and a lot more when they realized I was the source of all good things to eat (carrots, apples, etc.) The one that settled best (lowest in the herd rankings) gave me “helpful” twins boys = always right there, helping mend fence, rake manure, etc. The one that was wildest (had to assist the birth, which was a rodeo in itself!) had the spookiest of kids – again, ’til momma realized that I was the ‘apple tree’ – then baby settled right down. So, I see how that what you say makes perfect sense. I don’t think I would have the expertise to breed mustang mules… I don’t just throw them together & hope – if I can’t develop them, as you speak of doing, then I’m not a responsible breeder, I’m just creating trash. However, I do think that a purchased mustang mule or team could have a place on my farm, for the small amounts of heavier work the donkeys might have too hard a time of. An 800 lb., 13hh mule sounds very useful, to me. If either of you ever happen to have one or two calm ones like you spoke of that you don’t want to feed anymore, think of contacting me, will you please?

[Tom S]

Robert,

I think you are making a good decision. You are more likely to find the type mules you are looking for in MO on in TN. Out here they get real expensive, real quick. Most worth anything at all will sell well beyond a $1000 even as a 2 yr old. Last July, I sold a 6 yr old for $3000 and he was not perfect. Good luck.

[J-L]

I run into some now and again. I’ll let you know.

[Author]

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