My first family cow…

[dlskidmore]

@OldKat 21752 wrote:

Not sure how much time you intend to spend taming your heifer that is headed for the deep freeze, but whatever works for you …

If you’re new with cattle, working with a difficult one is a way to train yourself. Get the mistakes out with this one that doesn’t matter, so the next one you train right.

[Tim Harrigan]

I agree that you have to consider the entire housing and handling system and the more animals you have together, particularly of different sizes and ages the more potential for problems you have. And if they are housed where one can get cornered that can be a problem. I was picturing a 6 month heifer with a calf down the road in 18 months or so, in the meantime pastured with a couple of horses with enough space to stay out of each others way. Maybe I pictured it wrong.

[OldKat]

@dlskidmore 21880 wrote:

If you’re new with cattle, working with a difficult one is a way to train yourself. Get the mistakes out with this one that doesn’t matter, so the next one you train right.

Yep, she kinda tricked me. She started off talking about a deep freeze calf, but I noticed the calf now has a name. That is a pretty good sign that Jen won’t be eating any beef anytime soon, at least not from that heifer! 🙂

[jen judkins]

@Tim Harrigan 21881 wrote:

I was picturing a 6 month heifer with a calf down the road in 18 months or so, in the meantime pastured with a couple of horses with enough space to stay out of each others way. Maybe I pictured it wrong.

No. You pictured right. Thank you. Jen

[Nat(wasIxy)]

I would keep the horns, they are their crowning glory, like a horse’s mane and tail – they use them like hands, for scratching, flipping things over etc. If a bovine wnats to hurt you, they’ll do it with or without horns believe me. If they go for a fly at the wrong time, that’s an accident and could equally happen with their big hard head (I’ve been clouted accidentally a few times while they swipe for flies) or hooves, and we never consider taking the head or hooves off 😉 Some of our herd are horned, some are polled, it’s not a problem. My first ox was dehorned (not my decision) and I regret to this day ot forcing the issue to keep them 🙁 he looks naked without. Naturally polled cattle are different, they have a whole different head shape.

A mother reared 6 month old? Personally, I would not keep that one to be your first prospect at serious training – great to teach you about cattle and their behaviour, but I think a cow raised by humans has no dim memory of it’s life wild in the herd with it’s mother, and when it comes to the crunch in a bad situation – they look for guidance from you, their mother/herd and leader, rather than their instincts and those all-important initial memories.

I would urge you to get bovine company for your cow though, even if it’s a cheap jersey bull calf that you stick in the freezer – two are no more trouble than one, and they are so affectionate with each other, really cuddly unlike horses – they nestle down in the straw together, lick each other all over and they love to play, by head-wrestling, and she won’t be able to do that with you or the horses… 🙁

[jac]

We plan to get started in the house cow idea too.. we had thought of share milking with the calf. Do you consider this a good idea.. or will she be more agressive. Is it better to take the calf away altogether ??…
John

[Nat(wasIxy)]

I find it better by far to leave the calf on – that way you are not tied to milking every day, maybe twice a day, come hell or high water. That’s a huge bind. If she is good to milk, she’s good to milk with or without a calf. The people I’m doing some work for at the moment maintain that once their holsteins have had a calf, they never let their milk down for human or machine ever again. I’ve not found that to be the case with my own, whatever the breed 9though I’ve never kept a pure holstein….hungry things 😉

[jac]

I believe that the modern dairy with Holstiens push the cows so hard that they are burned out after two and a half lactations:eek:… If a cow was taken from this environment would she go on to be a suitable house cow ?? a bit like the battery hen put into a free range system.. or is there more to it than that ?…
John

[dlskidmore]

@jac 22472 wrote:

I believe that the modern dairy with Holstiens push the cows so hard that they are burned out after two and a half lactations:eek:… If a cow was taken from this environment would she go on to be a suitable house cow ?? a bit like the battery hen put into a free range system.. or is there more to it than that ?…
John

I think that would certainly depend on how much personal handling the cow has had. How will the cow raised in a large herd and only milked by machine adjust to being handled solo by halter and hand milked?

[jac]

Good points there DL … I hadnt thought of that:o.. I was thinking more of the production of milk.. when these big guys dispose of cows because they are “burned out” do they mean that they dont meet their production targets? or are the cows totally wrecked ?..
John

[dominiquer60]

Coming from a dairy area, often these cows are burnt out because they have bad mastitis, bad feet, won’t breed back, multiple prolapses, teats are too hard, etc. You could take a ok cow and perhaps make it work for a family, but you could be dealing with a lot of milk that you don’t have a use for. Cows that have always been milked by machine can often be very difficult to milk by hand. Personally I would rather beef a cow from a large herd than try to rehab her into the strange world of being an only cow with special needs, just because I have little experience with such problems.

Erika

[jac]

More great points Erika.. its really a disgrace that these cows end up this way so early in life tho…
John

[dominiquer60]

A guy who used to milk cows at the end of our road, long before my time, used to say that a cow didn’t really start milking her best until she was about 10 years old. He was know to milk a 20 year old cow or two:)

[Nat(wasIxy)]

All our milking cows are ‘culls’ from our local jersey herd – they adapt to hand milking like ducks to water. Our current one is a little bit grumpy, but nothing to worry about. They’re fine being haltered and tied too, which surprised me.

We specifically pick cows which look in good nick – there are a few that get culled for no other reason than they just don’t yield enough to justify their place but other than that are fine; they would be, as they aren’t yielding too much!

We bought one car crash of a cow with a dodgy leg who was a high yielder, out of pity and because all those litres were tempting….. She did well for a few months as we switched to once-a-day milking and pampered her but she died at 6 whereas the 9yr old who yields less is still going strong, seems to have taken to AI first time too, as she did last year 😉 we love Bella…

[near horse]

One issue w/ machine milked cows is that they’ve been selected for shorter teats – good for the teat cups not as easy for hand milkers (not to say it can’t be done just shorter teats). Also, as you mention, an extended breeding interval will get a cow culled (if she doesn’t breed back after “x” number of days – 30, 45 – don’t remember) but those cows are usually fine for a family cow.

We see a lot of cows leaving the string at age 4 or 5. Still some good years in those cows.

Erika, around here I think it might be hard to find a grown beef cow that’s tractable enough to hand milk and for sale. Obviously, you could raise one.

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