My first family cow…

[jen judkins]

@near horse 22576 wrote:

Erika, around here I think it might be hard to find a grown beef cow that’s tractable enough to hand milk and for sale. Obviously, you could raise one.

and she has….

[dominiquer60]

I do have a beef heifer that would most likely let me milk her when the time comes. Also Dale’s family has never been too proud to milk a Hereford now and then.

However my point was that if someone gave me a cull Holstein tomorrow I would be more inclined to beef her than to try to deal with someone else’s problems. I am sure that there are good culls like Ixy’s “low” producing Jerseys. I have been to our local auction house and in the bowels of the largest beef packing plant east of the Mississippi working on pens of dairy culls for AI training. All the animals were there for a reason, none of which I would want to deal with if I didn’t have to. Like I said I am sure some culls would work fine, but there are many problems to look for and avoid if given the option of a cull cow for a potential family cow. In conclusion, buyer beware.

Erika

[jen judkins]

I’m bringing this thread back up to the forefront for two reasons.

First, I realized I did not provide some important follow-up. This heifer calf got away from the Vet and I (and another experienced Oxen man) last fall and ran off. She was running wild in the woods for several weeks, before I had one of my hunting neighbors shoot her. She visited the butcher earlier than I would have liked, but very tender, lean meat, I must say. Big lesson learned.

Second, with that experience under my belt, I recently was offered two angus bull calves, both without mother’s for various reasons. The first came to me at a week old and was bottle fed from day 2 or 3 (mom rejected). The second was on the heifer for 3 weeks but mom died of peritonitis. He’s definately not as friendly as the first, but definately likes his bottle. Both are about a month old right now and doing well. Easy to be around and friendly.

I doubt I will have the time to train these boys to work as a team, but I would like to be able to lead them around from time to time. So I am planning to start tying them up at meal time. What is the general thought about how long to start with. What are the goals of tying them? Am I looking for them to step forward and take pressure off themselves before I untie them? How long a time would you work up to. Nylon halter vs rope vs collar? Thanks.

[near horse]

Hi Jen,

I’ve never tried my hand at halter breaking calves but IMHO – the sooner the better as those buggers get big/strong fast and can yank you around pretty good. Again, from what I’ve experienced and seen at the university dairy back in the day, they went with halters on the young calves – once they’re broke collars can be used. These calves were Holsteins (some beef folks call ’em “magpies” around here) and were being trained to lead for use in fairs/shows.

These guys were kind of old school – would try to lead them first, then tied ’em up to get used to just standing/yielding to the halter for awhile, then led them around … sometimes quite a rodeo.

I know there are other “methods” out there but haven’t seen them in action. You might try contacting the folks at Tillers as they post a “low stress” handling on their website.

Good luck and stay safe.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Jen – I talked to my elderly friends up in St Maries – they used to have a small herd of highlanders ’til Tom died last November…he was 85 and she’s a tough old bird of 83. She said that she always insisted that SHE be able to lead the bull, the cows…whatever. I talked to her today to refresh my memory – she put a ring in the bull’s nose. Him and all others would “test” her – and since they’re ‘horn oriented’, she carried an ax handle to convince them her “horns” were longer than theirs…no treats if you misbehaved, but a good smack on the horns, instead. She led them w/ a bucket – again, horn-smack if they crowded her – “Mind your manners, now”. She’s not a big girl, neither. (“I used to be 5 foot tall, but it’s been a while”. The bull got loose, cornered a couple of Angus bulls over at the neighbors, and wasn’t letting them out of the corner, ’til she showed up…a rattle of the grain bucket to catch his attention, a tug on the ring and “Mind your manners, now”, and he followed her home w/ the bucket tied to the tailgate of the Toyota truck. Said the hardest part was driving just fast enough to keep him on it, w/out too fast so he gave up trying to get the grain. I love this old girl…she’s Czech chick, and really quite beautiful.
She said to go ahead and tell you about her, that maybe you can find something useful in it, but if not, she’s got some old-world recipes that you just might like. 😉

[jen judkins]

Moonshadow, I hope someone tells stories about me someday like that…:rolleyes:

[Tim Harrigan]

At one month old it is a good time to start handling them. I am guessing you have them in a pen. You should be in the pen a few times a day touching them and getting them used to being close to you. I don’t think it really matters if you use a collar or a halter, main thing is that it fits. It will be easy to introduce a halter if you are bottle feeding them, just hold the halter in front of the bottle and they will stick their head right in. They will soon associate the halter with being fed and it will not be a problem getting it on them. If you are not in a hurry I would probably just put the halter on when feeding them and interacting, brushing them also would be good, then take it off when you are done.

After a week or so you can put a rope on them and start teaching them to lead. They have a natural balance point near the point of their shoulder, you will be working in their flight zone. If you step in back of it they will tend to move forward, step ahead and they will tend to stop or maybe want to step back. Work with that tendency, and encourage them to move ahead with you or stop on command with a small stick or goad. Get behind the point of their shoulder and tap them on the butt with the goad if necessary to get them moving and tell them to ‘come up’ or whatever command you want to use. Also teach them ‘whoa’ by stepping up and giving a gentle tap on the nose. After they are comfortable with that you can introduce gee and haw, back and whatever other commands you may want to use. If you can do that for 10-15 minutes per day they will lead easy in no time, in most cases. Some cattle are really laid back, others might be more nervous and flighty, those kind just take a little more work.

If you want to tie them, I would just halter them and brush and handle them, let them go when you are done. Most cattle like to be brushed. I don’t really see where there is much to be gained by just tying them and leaving them. It is best if they look forward to interacting with you and that is not much of an incentive. Once they are used to being haltered and handled, standing tied will not be an issue for them.

[dominiquer60]

To go along with Geoff the sooner the better. We use collars to tie our beef calves in the barn. They are there much of the day but once tame go out for water and back in for grain. I don’t know what your routine is but if you tie them for their two meals a day and let them eat hay and grain they will get used it rather quick. This also works well if they get different amounts of food or one tends to want to hog the others food because you can keep them far enough apart from each other.

For halter training Tim explained it better than I could. I certainly think using a stick to encourage them to move forward takes a lot of frustration out of training a bovine to lead, they really don’t seem to understand why they should follow you if you don’t have a pailful of something for them. If you get into the routine of leading them to their water, they learn quickly that the walk has purpose and they gladly go along.

Even if you are not going to work your boys you’ve got the right idea about being able to handle them and be comfortable around them. I make all my cattle take a step back before I feed them grain/milk, I hate being crowded and pushed. They are quick to learn this and will soon offer this behavior at feeding time.

You’ll be a cowgirl in no time, Yee-haw! 🙂

Erika

[near horse]

I will add one caveat – the first time you venture out into the wide open spaces leading a calf – be ready. Sometimes they just “burst forth” with joy and excitement of being in the open (and forget you’re on the other end of the lead). Oh yah, close any gates that would allow them to run to the woods – then if you’re getting dragged along, letting go is an option. Also, make a mental note of any posts/poles etc that you can throw a dally around with your lead to help you if necessary.

Most likely – you won’t have any issues but always be prepared.

Also – what does Howie “Mr. Ox” Van Ord suggest in training calves?

[Nat(wasIxy)]

I start them at about 2 weeks and the first step is simply to get the halter on and tie them up. I leave them til they settle down, that way the thing they are tied to is taking all that struggling, and I only start leading once they know they can’t get away from a halter. Some of them never do struggle – I’ve had two like that. Some take a bit more time. That first time I wait for them to calm down, then release as a reward. Mine have always seemed to appreciate short lessons with one, clear message – introducing leading at this stage would be too much IMO. They are very young babies after all.

[Robert MoonShadow]

@jenjudkins 26167 wrote:

Moonshadow, I hope someone tells stories about me someday like that…:rolleyes:

We already do… :p

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