My View of Draft Animals and Land Use In The Future…

[Gabe Ayers]

Well despite the obvious finite reality of oil running out and being beyond the peak production heading towards the downhill side of availability – no one really knows exactly when it will all be gone, used up, not available. But we all know that it will not last forever.

So given the inevitable absence of oil I suspect we will come up with another liquid fuel of some sort to transition modern society into a different labor saving and therefore addictive fuel.

Since that is not the business I am in, my thoughts are more about the reality that animal power is a superior way of addressing human needs now and in the future for many reasons. These reasons are listed many places so I won’t repeat them here. Probably the least expressed one is the redefining of the human component being a useful part of the work.

Sure, someone may come up with a remote controlled electronic computerized way of working draft animals but that is doubtful (current market to small to pay for R&D) also and this would just be another displacement of the value of the human presence that hopefully most folks wouldn’t fall for as another weakening influence on their own personal presence, independence and worth.

There is a mental health aspect to working with animals that is very valuable,
some would say priceless. Working with animals is good for people. There is so much wisdom in Churchill’s statement about there being something good for the inside of a man from touching the outside of a horse, (I paraphrase that may not be the exact quote).

The self limiting nature of animal powered techniques is often used to dismiss, reduce and marginalize the culture. In fact that may be the most empowering aspect of the activity. We must come to find ways that are more returning to the natural world that our very survival as a species depends upon. That reality is coming more to the everyday persons consciousness than ever in history. The impact of burning fossil fuels to assist in our every need is coming home to roost. Of course great wealth is deeply invested in denying this reality, but having ones head in the sand or
some other blinding place leaves many members of society out of any potential for real change in the future.

There is a constant pressure to control human activity in the modern world. Licenses are required for just about everything anyone does and that will only increase as a pattern to collect revenue from even the simplest of things. Just about everything we do seems to attract, promote or submit to the development of a structure that includes useless middle management that is in on the take of income generated often for our own safety or the public safety.

Many of these forms of control are subtle, like insurance, licensing, taxes, etc. Preying on the fears of ones own failure, accidents or negligence that result in injury. These common place strategies of society are so prevalent that they are seldom described as scams, although many seem to be. I’ve read that if most people put the money they pay in insurance premiums in the bank they could retire years earlier particularly if they don’t have an accident the kills them or someone else before they made it that far and what makes this a profitable industry is that most folks don’t use them.
Licensing is just another revenue stream creation in many cases. They are subtle ways of collecting more taxes and restricting much liberty.

My point is that working with animals brings personal responsibility to ones next breath, next step and ongoing existence. It give independence in return for accepting interdependence, the fact that we can meet our needs by meeting the needs of other living creatures. It is limited, which many would deem appropriate and certainly the reality of oil. Yet within the limitations are the promise of new life, humans, foals, calves, topsoil, saplings on and on. Even death itself advises the great value of being alive.

Animal powered culture will survive as it has for thousands of years, as long as this planet will support advanced life forms.

I would submit that this may be the only forum brave enough to even ask this question. We are not radical, yet these modern times make us seem to be. We are traditionalist by being heritage based workers. We are futurist by having a vision of this culture being capable of going forward as forever as any thing else out there in this modern world.

Please forgive my ramblings and grumbling about things I also can’t avoid. I hope everyone has something to look forward to, that alone makes the future worth living for.

Obviously I see animal powered culture as a powerful and empowering potential in the future of humanity.

Disclaimer:
This is a personal babble and has no part in the official signature for HHFF.

[Joshua Kingsley]

I think that you are on the right track jason.
Many of the people in this country are burying thier head about the whole issue and then there are those of us that see the future that is closer to the past. Many people say I was born 100 years to late, My respones is that I am just on the cutting edge.

Joshua

[Bumpus]

.
One thing about it, it is easy to proclaime the future while living in the present.

But the future is an unknown factor of speculated guesses which only those who guess can speculate at.

Only God knows for sure !
.

[Carl Russell]

Bumpus;12966 wrote:

.
One thing about it, it is easy to proclaime the future while living in the present.

But the future is an unknown factor of speculated guesses which only those who guess can speculate at.

Only God knows for sure !
.

Very true, but there is a huge difference between vision and speculation. These visions are based on sober appraisal of the past and present, and knowing that at least for a while there will be many aspects of the present that will be part of the future. The Earth and her processes, and humans and our habits, needs, and culture are reasonable constants that we can evaluate from the past and project into the future.

Being brave enough to have vision is often what separates the survivors from the rest.

Carl

[Phil]

Also, a vision is something you can aim at, speculation is just armchair quarterbacking.

[Robernson]

Although I am not as educated on draft as y’all I’ll still share my opinion.

I forsee that,in the future, the population of small farms will grow. I would also be of the mind that more people (like myself) will be starting to use animal power. From there I see a boom in animal logging, in an effort to clear land for agricultural use. I would like to see,personally,the timber used for construction of farm buildings but I might be pushing my luck. Then they would begin to grow their own feed and cut their own hay. I would like then for the farms to begin to construct ponds if possable for further self sustainablilty. Then, gardens would grow in size and more people will be preserving food by means of canning.

That would be my ideal outlook. My reasoning is that more people will begin to realize that with the ever increasing price of everyday items,they might be in trouble. Now take that how you care to but that is my philosophy. I would like to see more kids my age (14) become interested in self sustainability.Because(although I am the only one in my family to think like this) I believe that we are going to need to know how to do these things one day. It might not be us,or our children,but someone needs to know how so theat when the time comes we can survive. And quite personally I think that hard working,honest,and intelligent people such as our selves can and will survive,providing that we know how to do these things.

I will get off my soap box now but I would like to leave with these words, Magaret Fitzpatrick said,”I learned the value of hard work by working hard.”
I think that those words are very true and should christen us all with a certain amount of pride.
Thank you and stay safe.
~~R

[jac]

Hi . What a great post.. The tide is slowly turning s more of the general public want to know where their food comes from. We are in the minority over here in Scotland regards working with horses. Our farmer friends who do have horses are all into showing, which is fine, but I find it odd that they can spend ages “training” their team in a training vehicle and then go sit in a tractor to harrow/roll/spread fertiliser !!!. I’d much rather spend all day with the team and get them trained as I get a worthwhile job done.. I agree totaly with what you say. We need to reconnect with nature and bring communities together again and agriculture can do all that and more. Politicians need to butt out and let farmers do what they do best. Unfortunately as long as the subsidy thing is in place we seem to be stuck with it for now. Keep the dream and never give up. cheers … John

[dominiquer60]

Robernson,
We are fortunate that young folks like yourself are out there in this crazy world that we live in. I think that you are fortunate to have a group like DAP to turn to. I was in your shoes 20 years back, I was the crazy kid that lived on a “farm” because I had chickens. It wasn’t a farm, but I wished everyday that it was. I wonder how different my life would be now, if the internet and DAP were part of my life then.

My life could be dramatically different, maybe I would have taken time off before college to work on draft powered farms, or any farm that didn’t involve show horses. Maybe I would have found a situation that gave me a good start in the farming world and I could have saved myself the $50,000 to learn factory farming. I have few regrets and love my life and the people and land that I am close to, but I would have loved to have had such a network to turn of good honest people when I was younger and not as crazy.

Robernson, enjoy your youth and keep it with you at all times, and know that you are not alone. Enjoy the luxury of having some of the best teamsters/farmers/loggers and aspiring folks at your fingertips. Even if your your family is not really into your interests, at least you don’t have leave home to find those of us that are.

Great post everyone.

Erika

[Stable-Man]

@Robernson 13022 wrote:

Although I am not as educated on draft as y’all I’ll still share my opinion.

I forsee that,in the future, the population of small farms will grow. I would also be of the mind that more people (like myself) will be starting to use animal power. From there I see a boom in animal logging, in an effort to clear land for agricultural use. I would like to see,personally,the timber used for construction of farm buildings but I might be pushing my luck. Then they would begin to grow their own feed and cut their own hay. I would like then for the farms to begin to construct ponds if possable for further self sustainablilty. Then, gardens would grow in size and more people will be preserving food by means of canning.

That would be my ideal outlook. My reasoning is that more people will begin to realize that with the ever increasing price of everyday items,they might be in trouble. Now take that how you care to but that is my philosophy. I would like to see more kids my age (14) become interested in self sustainability.Because(although I am the only one in my family to think like this) I believe that we are going to need to know how to do these things one day. It might not be us,or our children,but someone needs to know how so theat when the time comes we can survive. And quite personally I think that hard working,honest,and intelligent people such as our selves can and will survive,providing that we know how to do these things.

I will get off my soap box now but I would like to leave with these words, Magaret Fitzpatrick said,”I learned the value of hard work by working hard.”
I think that those words are very true and should christen us all with a certain amount of pride.
Thank you and stay safe.
~~R

Just a couple of years ago I left high school, and most of the people there thought the little state park behind our school was “in the middle of nowhere.” Lots of people in the suburbs think similarly of the countryside, an attitude not exactly a breeding ground for success. With a lot of teens leaving the farm for college and a “better” life and the average age of farmers increasing there’s a lot of opportunity for us young people to take over.

The number of farms is increasing, but technically farm only means a piece of land that earns 1000 dollars in produce, and that’s just not going to feed America. There must be something in between. First we need to get people to buy more things farm-direct; as a consequence, their kids get exposure and don’t consider a farm just an empty piece of ground between the mall and their house. Using animals is another thing because our culture has drawn us to big engines and speed. You’ll get a lot of nasty feedback from farmers and non-farmers telling you that animal traction is moving backwards. So, of course, making this work will take generations. Acclimating people to farms, THEN animals, won’t be quick.

edit: I should mention that it seems like a lot of people have an affinity for draft animals, hence the reason why a lot of people like the Amish. But the patience required may be a setback

[near horse]

Hi,

I don’t know if this “fits” with the thread title but I ran across this article while looking for something else (ahh, the internet) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3235140

In Cuba, the ox is mightier than the tractor.
Animal viewed as way to ramp up food production while conserving energy

Perhaps, as many have mentioned in other threads, it will take a real economic shake-up to get people to recognize the value of animal power.

As an aside, here are a couple of links to draft power websites in other countries. Keep at it!

http://www.atnesa.org/ (Animal Traction Network for Eastern and Southern Africa)

http://www.recta.org (Cuban Network of Animal Traction)

http://www.animaltraction.com/

http://www.mitamadagascar.org/ (Madagascar Network for the Development of Intermediate Means of Transport) mainly French

[jac]

Hi Stable Man.. The attitude you speak of is predomminant over here in Scotland. When I mention using horses I get a patronising smile and “horses could never feed the world”!!!. Then they launch into how great an idea biodiesel is???. Using good farm land to grow fuel ?? smart move eh. Now getting fuel from a waste product of the food industry is a different matter. Cuba is a recent example of how people can be fed using animal traction after cheap oil is gone. An awful lot of great things were done before any of us were even born..using horses. I was talking a while back with an older farmer who said that when he stopped using horsedrawn grain binders and got a contractor in with a combine his yield went up and he implied this was the horses fault. I pointed out that the only reason his yield went up was because he was able to leave the grain to swell more and ripen fully and the losses between field and stack were eliminated. Horses are more than able to handle modern crops with new equipment. The skills needed to do this is the problem as I see it. If we can keep them alive and pass them on to a younger generation then when the time comes they can step in and take up the slack. Both my daughter Caitlyn and her cousin {11 and 12 yrs} can hitch and drive my team and I intend to teach them the mower soon . Keep the dream
John

[Carl Russell]

Some of these last posts got me thinking about a workshop I ran recently.

Brains and bodies working at the same time.

On Tuesday January 12th, I gave a presentation at Sharon Academy, in Sharon VT,this on Social Justice for Rural Communities. I talked about the cultural assumption that people who test poorly in our schools are more suited for manual/ag/forestry work, and how that plays into the way we value food.

I also talked about how the education system is lacking in opportunity for adolescents to experience physical and spatial challenges as part of their “career choice preparation”. Lively discussion.

My presentation also challenged the assumption that farming and logging are not inherently intellectually challenging, and that people who choose these PROFESSIONS are less intellectually capable than those who have attained certification for higher education.

If we could find a way to validate hands-on life experience, and physical enterprise, then we would find equity and justice in our rural careers, arrive at more legitimate wages, and more vital rural communities.

This was part of MLK Celebration Day at the school. Workshops were supposed to bring to light everyday assumptions that affect the way we interact with people.

I find it interesting how easily people can accept the presence of inequity in racial, religious, and gender issues, which are certainly important, but it is evidently difficult to see the social classification that is the result of our modern educational system.

This is because it is an ancient assumption. Even the Greeks considered that people who work with their hands, animals, and soil, are bestial, spiritless, and unfit for civic participation. Some philosophers even refer to this as “Social Predestination”.

I hope that I started some thinking.

These are the questions I asked to facilitate the discussion:

What is your name and what is your dream for your working future?

What do we mean by Social Justice?

What do we mean by “Rural Community”?

What kind of careers, are typical in rural communities?

Is it easy to make a living as a farmer or logger?

Are these professions desirable in today’s job market?

Do you know of any assumptions, or stereotypes associated with these professions?

Do you think these professions require college education?

Do you know of any social stigmas associated with the choice to work with your hands, in dirt, doing hard physical labor?

Do you think those stigmas have anything to do with how hard it is to male a living wage farming or logging?

Do you think that rural lifestyles are less intellectually stimulating?

Is there any critical thought involved in farming, or logging, or other manual labor?

Do you know people who don’t have high school or college degrees? How are they judged by their community? What do they do for work?

What do you think about our educational process that sets us up for the assumption that manual labor is a career choice for the less intelligent?

How does this prepare people who have a tendency toward physical work?

Do you think people who are enervated by physical enterprise, somehow accept that they deserve less pay than people who are highly educated professionals? Do they deserve less pay?

How does a school test adequately judge a person’s intelligence, if they are not stimulated by theoretical learning, but instead they are mentally motivated by physical and spatial challenges?

[Rick Alger]

Carl, some thought provoking stuff.

I read somewhere that roughly 25 percent of the jobs in America require a college degree, yet well over 50 percent of high school seniors enter the college-to-career pathway each year.

[Tim Harrigan]

Carl, these are interesting thoughts and I admire you for making the effort to think through these linkages and articulate them to a group of students. You have raised some big issues that I will need to think through a little more. I did, though, listen to the SoF webcast that you suggested a week or so ago. One of the things that occurred to me is that farm families have had an active role in devaluing their profession by either actively discouraging their children from considering farming as a wise choice or perhaps wearing them down with long hours of physical labor and little recognition or articulation of the rewards. The schools have helped the process along by completely removing what was seen as vocational education from most systems. The shop classes that I had in high school and enjoyed so much have long ago disappeared.

Social predestination is certainly a reality is many areas of the world, but in our communities folks generally have real choices based on mobility and ambition to redefine their destiny. Education has been one of the options in that way and I have seen many kids from the farm go off ‘to college’ and not come back. So in some ways the range of opportunities in rural communities needs to be redefined and communicated in a way that is real and meaningful. It seems like a new set of possibilities is emerging for many that values honest and traditional skills by capturing the modern advantages of mobility and broader reach.

It seems to be a bit of a hobby for those with traditionally physical occupations to rip on ‘egg head engineers’ for instance and vice-versa. It is common for folks to build themselves up by diminishing the skills and abilities of others, and the less we know about the real depth of decisions that others are face with the easier it is to do. But it seems clear to me that the real winners are those that have had the opportunity or have made the effort to balance their lives with both physical and intellectual challenges. Formal education is not the only source of intellectual challenge.

I am guessing that for those who frequent this site, as we look back at those who provided real and meaningful inspiration regarding career and life choices, few look to those responsible for formal education. Some will, but I see faces much closer to home, farmers and the like who I saw day to day. Not a lot of formal education but so smart in so many ways. Would they make the same career choices today, given the stunning increase in mobility and options available just 2 generations later? Maybe, but probably not.

Intelligence is not obtained by higher education. Most of the fundamental work in designing most of our farm tools and implements was done in the mid-1800’s, most likely by folks with no formal education. Many of those tools have changed very little other than nice sheet metal and paint. And horse harnessing systems are an incredible example of observation of the forces transmitted to the animal and translation of complex concepts of physics in balancing those forces.

I love the line from Randy Newman’s song, Louisiana…”College men from LSU, went in dumb, come out dumb too…” I know for a fact that a lot of kids would benefit from opportunities to learn to do honest work with their hands and build real skills before they went off ‘to college’. It would be a life changing experience.

[Stable-Man]

@Tim Harrigan 14625 wrote:

It seems to be a bit of a hobby for those with traditionally physical occupations to rip on ‘egg head engineers’ for instance and vice-versa. It is common for folks to build themselves up by diminishing the skills and abilities of others, and the less we know about the real depth of decisions that others are face with the easier it is to do. But it seems clear to me that the real winners are those that have had the opportunity or have made the effort to balance their lives with both physical and intellectual challenges. Formal education is not the only source of intellectual challenge.

>>I have seen a good amount of this going back and forth between vocational and formal education. In both automotive and construction trades the engineer is the guy with a bunch of theory knowledge but no pratical knowlege of how a car is fixed, etc. There seems to be some resentment and questions about who’s more valuable.

I am guessing that for those who frequent this site, as we look back at those who provided real and meaningful inspiration regarding career and life choices, few look to those responsible for formal education. Some will, but I see faces much closer to home, farmers and the like who I saw day to day. Not a lot of formal education but so smart in so many ways. Would they make the same career choices today, given the stunning increase in mobility and options available just 2 generations later? Maybe, but probably not.

>>Farming is seen as a risky business, which is why people left the farms for job “security” in factories in the city, but I know from listening to professors that construction is as much of a risk. Financing died during this recession and house construction almost completely halted, and the multi-hundred-million-dollar projects set to start backfired. Lots of jobs are a constant gamble. As I see it food security is what keeps us all alive so we can do the rest of these enterprises, so which sounds like a better job?

At college I know plenty of dumb people, and for them college is great because a bachelors looks good on a resume. And for those that are smart and want to do something like engineering or whatever there isn’t much choice but to get a college degree. Personally I think apprenticeships need to come back into practice because some people don’t do well in college but excel in a concentrated task. The people who think farming is only for a simpleton don’t know anything about it.

Jac–It’s a view shared by a lot of the so called developed world. The tractor is seen as progress and most people don’t challenge it. near horse–In cuba and a many other places the ox is important, but I get the impression it’s seen as a sign of impoverishment rather than owning a machine is just not as economical for the small landholdings they farm. Carl–if you ever make it down thisaway give a talk at one of the colleges like UMD. That’d be cool.

[Author]

Posts