New start up

[Donn Hewes]

After many years of skidding my fire wood and a few jobs for friends I have finally started my own horse logging business. This winter I am focusing on expanding my knowledge of the silviculture. Next week I am going to VA to work with / learn from, Jason and Jagger Rutledge for a few days. I hope to spend a few days in Vermont in February with some of my friends there. I am signed up for the next “game of logging” training in my area next spring. There is also a master forester program taught in Cornell’s Arnot forest I hope to attend next year.

Any advise for a start up would be welcome. I am luck in that I am already busy with other endeavors so there isn’t any pressure to produce. I enjoy working in the woods as much as anything and I am interested in learning some new skills. My horses and mules could use more work in the winter. I am targeting small land owners near me that want a little fire wood, a few logs to mill at home, and some timber stand improvement.

Here is my first flyer.

[lancek]

Hey Don thaats great Im sure you will enjoy Jasons tutaleged he dose A fine job from what I see and be sure to ask about the draftwood program that they are working on The flyer looks great but maybe some more info could be brought forrward on it Lancek

[TaylorJohnson]

Hey it looks good , and good luck to you . I would watch that free visit though because you are likely to get a lot of people calling and it could get real busy as far as the visits go . Your time is your money and you should get paid for it . Taylor Johnson

[Scott G]

Donn,

Ditto to what Taylor mentioned. I use to get a lot of bid requests that turned into forest management consults. Ask a few direct questions when you have people on the phone. If they have a clear objective it is easier to sort out. If people are just curious and looking for info volunteer to visit their site for a consult fee of whatever one hour of your hourly normal rate would be. Even though it won’t completely cover your costs it will help offset them and most people I have found are willing to cough up that much.

Market yourself to the fullest and in the best possible light. Do not just “buy” work. Hold out for jobs that not only will cover your costs but make a little in the process. It is easy for people to put a lower value on themselves when they first start out and possibly get themselves into a jam. Adjusting your hourly service rate to reflect just starting out maybe; if you’re getting paid for volume there is absolutely no reason to discount your price as you are getting out the material regardless.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe.

Take care,
Scott

[Gabe Ayers]

Hey Don and Fellow Dappers,

We are looking forward to having you with us and will share techniques to enhance your safety and skills at doing this work. At the moment we have about the same snow cover as in your flyer photo, so maybe some experience in those conditions will be a part of your time with us.

I have to agree with the other folks that suggest taking the FREE word out of the ad. Not that you don’t want to invite peoples interest, but our experience is that about 70% percent of the folks that call us don’t have any timber and usually don’t have any money to pay for TSI either. So that leads us to look for other ways of paying for the services of forest improvement activities that don’t pay for themselves through the value of extracted goods. That reality is a harder nut to crack. In Virginia there is support for TSI work, but it requires a forest management plan and some long term relating with NRCS or the department of forestry to get that support.

“Site inspections available” – would be more appropriate and then they may ask if there is a fee, and like Scott suggest keep it modest, but keep it real. There is no free anything, except maybe on an adjoining neighboring landowner whose woods you have seen for a while anyway.

As Scott suggests the questions you ask any callers are important. The first and most important is “What are your objectives with your woods”.
If the answer is make the most money off of it as possible, from the beginning, you maybe should just say “next”, because that is not what you or any animal powered practitioner will be able to provide. We are slow and this work is about quality of services and not volume of production.

I understand the phrase “auspicious beginnings” and that you are excited about finding places to work and that you know you can do good work in any woods. The point by those who have done this work for a while is that you can’t give your time or skills away.

I would imagine we will get some time to talk about all this in person while you are here.

Other suggestions, always wear PPG, Personal Protective Gear that shows you are a professional and therefore your services are worth more. This includes your photos. Be sure to bring all that PPG with you when you make the trip to Appalachia. Don’t relegate your services to the most difficult spots, but instead look for the best forests, where your superior services will have the most positive effect. You don’t have to work on a rocky mountainside with marginal timber to get started. You’d be better off dragging your pastures or scrapping the driveway than do that kind of work from the start.

It also would be appropriate that you join or investigate what is going on with the DAPFI group. One of the most encouraging aspects of this new group is helping all of us define our services as being far more than just “Horse Logging”.

When you say improve your woodlot, you will need to be able to describe this in advance and perform the tasks of actually doing it while actually making some money at it.

Looks like you have a good start though and hopefully you will find all the work you want to do during the leaf off period of winter.

Hopefully you will get a chance to write about your experience while here with us and use that experience to help you in the future.

Looking forward to having you with us.

Jason and Jagger Rutledge

[J-L]

From all your pictures and posts, the horse part is in the bag for you. I found that it’s actually pretty easy to navigate the timber with a team after you already have used them farming or doing chores anyway.
I think you’ll do great with this venture. One thing that bothers me about the picture is that you don’t have a mule hooked in there somewhere. Nice looking team in spite of that. Go for it and good luck.

[Scott G]

@J-L 13231 wrote:

One thing that bothers me about the picture is that you don’t have a mule hooked in there somewhere. Nice looking team in spite of that.

You do such a great job of neutralizing your long-ear bias, Wes! Problem with mules is that most of them are too smart to log… 😉

[Carl Russell]

Glad to see you’re headed to the woods Donn.

The only two cents that I can throw out there is that even though you may have some learning ahead of you in the forestry knowledge department, it is my own preference that horse-logging be sold on the merits of the services provided, more than on the aesthetic/pastoral and supposed environmentally superior aspects of animal power.

There may be some intrinsic truth to these sales pitches, but there are also many examples that contradict them, and they are easily argued against.

Whereas a superior service based on knowledge, skill, and caring, speaks for itself.

Oh yeah, I also enjoy working on challenging terrain, but it needs to be cost effective for it to be enjoyable.

Carl

[TaylorJohnson]

Carl,
This is a great point , some of my costumers just don’t get the warm fuzzies from the horses and there just not that wound up about the environment. They do care about there woods and how it will look now and down the road. They are also concerned about there investment as far as there land goes in the over all timber , resale, wild life, and a lot of other concerns. The best part of the draft powered is the flexibility of the animals and what they can do and the flexibility of who you can market your services to. It is what makes since for most private land owners , it is in there best interest to use draft powered contractors ( with the right mind set ) to do the work that needs to me done. Some one that is concerned with the environmental aspect of things we can take care of and some one that wants to get the most out of there property in a long term investment we can do that to. Managing for wild live is a big thing up here in WI , we are well equipment to handle all of these things better than most. Leave the 2000 cord clear cuts to the guys that are mechanize out fits that is what they are good at. Taylor Johnson

[Donn Hewes]

Thanks for all the quality input. So far all I have done is share the flyer with a few friends and neighbors. Lots of good input from here too. Don’t worry JL, both those horses are dead, but I just like the photo. I do own a 6 y/o mule out of the mare! I am purposefully starting slow. Identifying this as work I am planning to do in the future supports my seeking education and training; which is my focus right now. Allowing myself the time and cost to go and do it right. I will keep you posted. Donn

[TaylorJohnson]

Donn,
I would love to see that mule and I look forward to seeing how you do take care and be safe. Taylor Johnson

[simon lenihan]

Good luck in your new venture donn, working difficult and steep ground is what we always offered, if i had to start all over again i would be avoiding these conditions, you could get alot of calls from wood owners whose woods are on very steep slopes and have never been worked and before you know it this could account for most of your work.
simon lenihan

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