No.7 McCormic Deering Mower

[Neil Dimmock]

Its not a modify!! or jobber!! or a retro fit!! Its factory equipment!!This is not some sort of butchery its was recommended by four top Manufactures!! and it was offered in all regions! I am not trying to sell any one any thing Like a harness or trucks but when you have used mowers as much as I ( And I have cut more with a horse mower than most have with a tractor ) then some one runs down the best idea for mowers that the top manufacturers offer I wonder! Its not an over think, Its problem solved, There is no down side to trucks none!! they corner sharper, the mower runs steadier with less vibration, the horses are more comfortable as well as the operator! If the cutter bar hangs on a stump it hinges at the trucks and save the mower from busting! In tough cutting the bar pulls the pole against the right hand horse with a standard pole with the auto steering it brings the bar back straight and the pole stays in the middle with out rubbing on the horse, the rolling and rocking motion of just two wheels lets the pole bump and rub the horses all day, if you don’t think so just video your self cutting for awhile, Trucks stop that, if fact it eliminates it all together. there is some old wife tales about the wheels in front falling in a hole and throwing you in to the horses which we busted last year. we walked the mower over a power pole and the driver never lost his seat, and the one with out trucks bounced out and hurt his tail bone, then we dug a three foot hole and walked them over, well the team stretched around the hole, and the front wheels fell only a little ways and then the tugs catch and hold them up until it was clear, the two wheeled one wiggled in to the hole and the driver lost his seat again!!!! I just cant see how a modified harness would help any of the above, I have 18 teams and I use all but the mares with foals at foot all summer, there are almost all black which show any sores or scalds and a white mark and You cant not find one on any of mine, not one, so I guess I have no need for a dring harness!!
Neil

[Carl Russell]

Neil, The point here is not to run down anything. My point is that although the truck may serve a purpose for some, it is not necessary. When considering the use of horses for work, getting distracted with whether or not a pair of Haflingers can handle a little tongue weight is just leading to a perpetual distraction. The uncertainty is being answered by something that can be understood easily, re-engineering a piece of equipment, rather than putting the animals to work. If the tongue truck is valuable on a mower, then where else are we going to put our brain power to solve an un-problem. That is my point about the harness. It had nothing to do with you, or your experience, or your working style. If a novice is concerned about uncertain capability of his horses to withstand tongue weight, I think his best investment would be to get a set of D-ring harnesses, and get to work, problem solved for every possible working situation, never have to sit down worrying out another solution to the persistent problem. Have a good day out there. Carl

[Rod]

Actually the truck wheel solution to this particular problem is the easiest because the mower I have (which is not ready to go to work yet as I still am repairing it) does not have a tongue but putting my existing wheel on it allows me to use my existing pole which fits all my other equipment as well.

I have had “D” ring harnesses on order for a couple of weeks now not just because of this problem but because I am convinced they work better for other uses and will help here as well. Les Barton’s video is great and really helps understand how these harnesses work and how they reduce the vibration and neck load.

I believe my Halflingers are capable of doing the amount of mowing I have with out a problem. They are quite strong, capable, well trained and when I get them in shape should do fine either way.

I do not like all the accompanying controversy but do appreciate the underlying advice posted throughout this thread. I admit I need the advice of experience because I have not had the opportunity to learn by doing in this particular area. I guess we all have areas where we have training, abilities and experience. It’s great when we can help others with what we have learned.

[Plowboy]

I have to agree that the truck is a good idea no matter what kind of horse or harness you use. We too have never had a horse blemished by anything. We use all kinds of harness but it is well fitted. We use many different implements also with full size Percherons. While haflingers are pound for pound all horse a few adaptations may be necessary with equipment but they have the power. The truck is a good idea. We have one with and one without and the trucked mower is much nicer to use.
I will have to get Les Bardens video because we have one nice set of Mervin Martin heavy D-ring and while it is a good harness I don’t see the miracle. We have 5 sets of belly backer style harness and haven’t had any problems with that either.
I think we should all take in as much information from each other and learn all we can with an open mind. We all may be able to learn a thing or two from each other after all isn’t that what this is all about?

[Ira]

I have noticed that folks that have used the western style harness don’t seem to want to drop enough links on the heel chains to make the Dring work correctly. After you have hooked the first 3 heel chains you have to put your knee in back of the last single tree and push it ahead so that you are able to hook the remaining heel chain .

[Carl Russell]

Rod, you can make of it what you wish, but I have noticed that at a certain point in this enterprise we all have a tendency to fish around for solutions. Particularly near the outset, or certainly at a point when we are unsure, we all can get distracted by portions of the problem, that we CAN address.

I happened to have mentors who were, and are very pragmatic, and their comments to me were often edgy, but in the long run helped me greatly.

It can take a lot of work to understand the application of living power, to see the capabilities, and limitations. Focusing on the possible limitations of the equipment can be one of those distractions, much like flies bothering working animals, or snow-balls in the feet. All problems that seem to have finite solutions, that are easier to solve than the very intuitive and creative endeavor of working with living power.

My only intent is to make sure that as mentors we bring enough different views to the discussion that you are reminded that there is no one answer.

Carl

[Gabe Ayers]

The only downside to tongue trucks is that they are not available everywhere. Lots of old mowers sitting around, but most of the double trees, breast yokes and tongue trucks are gone.

I have taken the advice of a fellow poster and asked the head dude at the scrap yard to keep a look out for anything that resembles them coming through as scrap. I offered to double what ever he was paying for it by the pound. Hope to find some soon. I printed some of Neils photos to take him.

Thanks everyone for working for a full understanding of all our mower options.

Meanwhile I am still making hay with mostly conventional equipment on fields a few miles from home. I just have to many horses and a big barn to fill. We hope to stockpile some this year. We will even make some round bales from some fields. The last couple or years have been very costly come March and April when we run out.

[ngcmcn]

Hey Neil, you ‘ve got almost as much rusty junk (i know its not junk) in your yard as i do in mine.

Just got a chance to check out your photos and that tonque truk looks like it oughta work sweet. Automotive type steering and all. The dude at MacNairs in PA. sells a single wheel dolly type wheel, but i like yours better it looks like it would distribute the weight nicely. Also do you know of a source for tires for those old nines, and tubes besides the ,mortgage the house, antique guy in the back of SFJ. I need one. Was thinking of checking out some antique car sources??? 5-00–21 tube.?

Your tonque truk looks like it would take quite a bit of fabrication, but do it once it would be around for a long time.

Waiting for the thunderstorm every two days pattern to end here in Me. so we can put in some more hay.

thanks

Neal McNaughten
Unity, Me.

[Neil Dimmock]

Careful, its call stuff not junk. He He, the truck are to hard you’ll need a piece of 3″&4″ tube, drill holes for the mower end and two for the trucks, then you need a 3″ ring over the king pin and a 2′ 1/2″ rod from the ring to the double tree hanger, just bolt it together and your done!! the last one I redone for a fella he toke them to town and had the old ones filled with foam that they use on Bobcats tires that they use in welding shops ans such that are hard on tires, I was a little skeptic at first but after a couple of days I like them a lot, it added some weight and the vibration that come with ribber tire was a lot less, the only catch is they have to hold air until the foam sets, once set you can wear them down until there’s no tread, no flats or blowouts with that touchy colt! you cant see the start of it in the pic, there is more stuff out back and out front!:D
Neil

[ngcmcn]

Neil,

Foam sounds like a plan but i do have a gash about an inch and a half in the side wall. Itsa wonder i got by this far with it. Ya know i’d never had a rubber tired nine always iron and the i did notice a bit of vibration, more then an iron wheeled one.

JHunk, Nothing but Jhunk as we say here in Maine. I love my rusty collection. Trying to find the grease fitting on my Mac IBook????

Thanks

Neal

[Carl Russell]

I once patched a tire like that with a sheet of heavy duty gasket material, and once with another inner tube, pasted to the inside of the tire wall. It held for a long time. At least it kept the balloon from forming, until I fund a replacement.

“one mans junk….” At my farm it is referred to as the “Gold Mine”. Some times it takes a few hours to find the left hand inside reverse square O-ring, but I know it’s there somewhere!!!
Carl

[Neil Dimmock]

@Carl Russell 1941 wrote:

Neil, I have no doubt about your experience, but your comments are less than convincing. I can see the truck being a solution to harnesses that are poorly adjusted, or that put weight on the collar.

When the D-ring harness is adjusted correctly, it will put ALL the weight on the back pad. Hitched so that the tongue weight is entirely on the jack saddle, there is no slack in the traces, and with the belly band tight, there should be very little vibration transferred to the back, certainly not enough to cause sores.

Thousands of acres of hay land have been mowed all over the northeast without a tongue truck. They may work, but certainly are not necessary.

Carl

I’ll bet they were not wearing d ring harness ether so there certainly not necessary ether. having the info to make a qualified decision helps and most in the day didn’t have the info and waited to see if the planned out first before spending the extra money on one, big hay areas tried them first along with any thing that would make putting up hay easier and faster for them and then the horses, it kind of like power steering in pickups were offered in the 60’s but know one would spend the extra until well in to the 70’s, tell your wife its not necessary and thousands of miles were drove with out them and see the look you get!! the same goes for 4×4 and power brakes or hydraulic on tractors, good ideas and inventions have always been shot down at first then some one like me tried one and then the neighbor tried one and in so areas they were very popular indeed and in other they were never tried but those areas can not make a judgement on some thing they never used. Mentoring is some thing I take very serious indeed and I never make assumption on anything I don’t know about , Never! That is why I am so successful with my horses.
Neil

[Neil Dimmock]

Here’s a video of the truck’s on my mowers and a green team.
Neil
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=AluPPdayjNY

[medmonson]

Thanks for the video

[HeeHawHaven]

I found a No. 7 and am planning on getting it tomorrow. I would love to use it at some point. It looks to be in good shape and am told the gears work.

Can it be used with a single horse? Would my 1200 lb. fjord gelding be able to pull it? If not, I’m working on a team in the future. My fjules are getting started or I might be able to get my 16 year old mule to team with the fjord.

Can you tell what is missing and can I get the parts or make the parts that are missing?

Here’s some pics.

Thanks,

Dave

[Author]

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